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<p>That's no strawman, that's a genuine questionning. <br>
</p>
<p>You talk inclusivity, I'm all for it, but can we walk the talk
now? 'They' is a bigger barrier to entry than 'he' for
non-English readers/coders. But hey, what do I know, what is my
perspective here? The stated initiative is good: the majority of
users are female, the code is male-centric, can we be progressive,
inclusive... But 'they' sucks. As I said, why not use "she" ?<br>
</p>
<p>I don't send formating and commenting patches, the QA team having
quite enough on its plate already.</p>
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<div class="sig_content"> <span class="nom">Philippe Blouin,</span><br>
<span class="tagline small">Responsable du développement
informatique</span><br>
<p class="desc small"> Tél. : (888) 604-2627<br>
<a href="mailto:philippe.blouin@inLibro.com">philippe.blouin@inLibro.com</a>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 04/19/2017 03:20 PM, Chris Cormack
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:8222506F-BB0D-4666-A47A-D8FD43E3593F@catalyst.net.nz"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
Of course we won't fail patches, thanks for the strawman. We can
easily fix them instead. In fact I volunteer to do that. <br>
<br>
You're welcome to fix grammar too, send some patches. <br>
<br>
And of course you can vote -1 you just did. I certainly noticed
it. <br>
<br>
Chris <br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 20 April 2017 7:16:22 AM NZST,
Philippe Blouin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:philippe.blouin@inlibro.com"><philippe.blouin@inlibro.com></a> wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<p>My mistake, I hadn't read the original bugzilla. :-(<br>
</p>
<p>Well, can I -1 this or only +1 are politically acceptable?
Since this is politic, really. Could you amend the ticket
to also rewrite all the comments to some acceptable level of
English, to start with? Syntax, grammar, conjugation... <br>
</p>
<p>Call me obtuse, but 'they' can be quite offputting in the
middle of a sentence. I've read some short novels with that
usage (used as an androgynous pronoun). To someone whose
first language is not English, that can be quite
disconcerting on first and second read. <br>
</p>
<p>The ticket also refers to someone having written "it" for a
person in some comment. Well, that's the type of things
that occurs in a software partly written by French (I'm not
pointing), Indians and Finns... You want to set a rule
forcing them to use proper English, you'll fail their
patches because of it, in the name of inclusivity??? That's
productive...</p>
<p>Frankly, a much better "rule" should have been to write all
comments using the <u>female</u> form. Clear and concise.
But I don't believe that was the aim of the ticket...<br>
</p>
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<div class="sig_inlibro">
<div class="sig_content"> <span class="nom">Philippe
Blouin,</span><br>
<span class="tagline small">Responsable du développement
informatique</span><br>
<p class="desc small"> Tél. : (888) 604-2627<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:philippe.blouin@inLibro.com">philippe.blouin@inLibro.com</a>
</p>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 04/19/2017 02:18 PM, Jonathan
Druart wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJzKNY7u9ESZ726deAYxo-bHoy8BbSHS1o0h4qdT-tUOrTUAPA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">The patches only affect code comments so no
translation needed.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 at 15:12 Philippe
Blouin <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:philippe.blouin@inlibro.com">philippe.blouin@inlibro.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>How many of "these" are there to change? Not
that the work itself will be massive, but putting
a 'they' in the middle of a sentence does not make
it easy to translate intuitively, I would think.
If it's a consideration (it is for non-English
users, at least).</p>
<p><br>
</p>
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<span class="m_-8841806907294435125nom">Philippe
Blouin,</span><br>
<span class="m_-8841806907294435125tagline
m_-8841806907294435125small">Responsable du
développement informatique</span><br>
<p class="m_-8841806907294435125desc
m_-8841806907294435125small"> Tél. : (888)
604-2627<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:philippe.blouin@inLibro.com"
target="_blank">philippe.blouin@inLibro.com</a>
</p>
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<div class="m_-8841806907294435125moz-cite-prefix">On
04/19/2017 01:16 PM, Jonathan Druart wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>The next step would be to provide a check
to our QA tests to make sure we will not
introduce future occurrences.<br>
</div>
I am pretty sure they will not be caught
manually by QAers.<br>
<div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 at
13:56 Eric Phetteplace <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ephetteplace@cca.edu"
target="_blank">ephetteplace@cca.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif">Hi
Paul,</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif">English
has a singular "they". It doesn't
suggest androgyny, either, from the
definitions I've seen. For instance,
Oxford English Dictionary:</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font
face="georgia, serif">2. In
anaphoric reference to a singular
noun or pronoun of undetermined
gender: he or she.</font><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif">The
first usage example OED provides is
from 1375. I don't think replacing
"he" with "she" addresses the
problem, it's still assuming a
default gender. It's not too much
tricker to search code for he/him
& replace with they/them but
that's also just an implementation
issue, not a policy one.<br>
<br>
<br>
It sounds like people are otherwise
supportive but I'm not sure what the
next step should be.</div>
</div>
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<div><font
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style="font-size:12.8px">Best,</span><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font
face="georgia,
serif">Eric
Phetteplace</font></div>
<div><font
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serif">Systems
Librarian</font></div>
<div><font
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College of the
Arts</font></div>
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href="http://libraries.cca.edu" target="_blank">libraries.cca.edu</a> | <a
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<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr
19, 2017 at 8:42 AM, Paul A <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul.a@navalmarinearchive.com"
target="_blank">paul.a@navalmarinearchive.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>On
2017-04-18 08:25 PM, Eric
Phetteplace wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> Hi
list,<br>
<br>
I opened bug<br>
</blockquote>
</span> [snip]<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
Before*:*<br>
</blockquote>
<span> "Kid growing and become a
juvenile, he should pay "<br>
</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> After:<br>
</blockquote>
<span> "Kid growing and become a
juvenile, they should pay "<br>
<br>
</span> Political correctness has
never been my strong point
(although I try to understand it),
but I'm proficient in grammatical
rigour. [1]<br>
<br>
"Kid" is a singular noun, "a" is a
singular article -- "they" is a
plural pronoun. Perhaps replace
"they" with "[s]he"? or "Kids
growing and becoming juveniles,
they should pay"?<br>
<br>
From a code maintenance p.o.v.,
it's easier to find and replace
'he' with '[s]he' if really this
becomes a priority for Koha.<br>
<br>
Best -- Paul<br>
<br>
[1] I am aware of the so-called
"singular third person epicene
'they'", but academically object
to it -- it often suggests
androgyny rather than gender
neutrality.
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