<div dir="ltr">Is it really any less convenient to click a link and fill in your own password vs getting a random password in your mail and having to manually navigate to the site and login if you want to change it?<div><br></div><div>Devils advocate, I personally think this is a case where we can justifiably break the old functionality as there is a clear and near seamless alternative that doesn't result in any real lose and only leads to a more secure and privacy-conscious system.</div><div><br></div><div>Martin</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="410" style="font-family:'Times New Roman'"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2"><p style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;line-height:20px;margin:0px;color:rgb(45,92,136)"><strong>Martin Renvoize</strong></p></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2"><p style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;line-height:20px;margin:0px;color:rgb(45,92,136)">Development Manager</p></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2"><p style="font-family:Arial;margin:0px"><br></p></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2"><p style="font-family:Arial;margin:0px"> </p></td></tr><tr><td><p style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;line-height:20px;margin:0px;color:rgb(45,92,136)"><strong>T:</strong> +44 (0) 1483 378728</p></td></tr><tr><td><p style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;line-height:20px;margin:0px;color:rgb(45,92,136)"><strong>F:</strong> +44 (0) 800 756 6384</p></td></tr><tr><td><p style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;line-height:20px;margin:0px;color:rgb(45,92,136)"><strong>E:</strong> <a href="mailto:martin.renvoize@ptfs-europe.com" style="color:rgb(45,92,136);text-decoration:none" target="_blank">martin.renvoize@ptfs-europe.com</a></p></td></tr><tr><td><p style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;line-height:20px;margin:0px;color:rgb(45,92,136)"><a href="https://www.ptfs-europe.com" style="color:rgb(45,92,136);text-decoration:none" target="_blank">www.ptfs-europe.com</a></p></td></tr><tr><td><p style="font-family:Arial;margin:0px"> </p></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2"><p style="line-height:20px;margin:0px"><a href="https://www.ptfs-europe.com" border="0" target="_blank"><img src="https://www.ptfs-europe.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/ptfs_logo1.png" width="" height="" border="0"></a></p></td></tr><tr><td><p style="font-family:Arial;margin:0px"><br></p></td></tr><tr><td><p style="font-family:Arial;margin:0px"><br></p></td></tr></tbody></table><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="font-family:'Times New Roman';border-top-width:1px;border-top-style:solid;border-top-color:rgb(194,194,194);padding:20px 0px 0px;margin:0px"><tbody><tr><td><p style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;color:rgb(45,92,136);margin:0px">Registered in the United Kingdom No. 06416372 VAT Reg No. 925 7211 30</p><br><p style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;color:rgb(45,92,136);margin:0px">The information contained in this email message may be privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this email message in error, please email the sender at <a href="mailto:info@ptfs-europe.com" target="_blank">info@ptfs-europe.com</a></p></td></tr></tbody></table><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 20 June 2018 at 02:53, David Cook <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dcook@prosentient.com.au" target="_blank">dcook@prosentient.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_-7727176237104158575WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Yeah, I keep thinking that people won’t do something more secure if it’s less convenient for them. I suppose that’s their choice in the end though… and we can provide better options for those that do care more.<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">David Cook<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Systems Librarian<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Prosentient Systems<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">72/330 Wattle St<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Ultimo, NSW 2007<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Australia<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Office: 02 9212 0899<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Direct: 02 8005 0595<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></span><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <a href="mailto:koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-<wbr>community.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel-bounces@<wbr>lists.koha-community.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tomas Cohen Arazi<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 20 June 2018 11:02 AM<br><b>To:</b> koha-devel <<a href="mailto:koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel@lists.koha-<wbr>community.org</a>></span></p><div><div class="h5"><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Koha-devel] Why we do not push the ACCTDETAILS email via message queue?<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">The way we do this is having a syspref to choose between both ways, and a big sign ok to of the release notes asking users to switch.<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">El mar., 19 de jun. de 2018 9:25 p. m., Liz Rea <<a href="mailto:liz@catalyst.net.nz" target="_blank">liz@catalyst.net.nz</a>> escribió:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><p class="MsoNormal">The easy answer is : leave it alone for existing installs, default it on <br>for new ones.<br><br><br><br>On 20/06/18 12:19, David Cook wrote:<br>><br>> I think that’s not a bad way of looking at it. If people do complain, <br>> we can say that the change away was because of a commitment to patron <br>> security and privacy. I would hope that people would find that <br>> difficult to argue against.<br>><br>> If I recall correctly, I think DSpace does it this way. When you <br>> create a new user, I think it sends an email containing a URL with a <br>> token to the user, and then they set their own password from there. It <br>> works pretty well. Surely we could say “everybody else is doing it” as <br>> well.<br>><br>> But I know that there are a lot of libraries using this feature, and <br>> it would be disruptive to their existing workflows for it to go away. <br>> But… that’s also progress for you. So long as people have notice that <br>> it’s going away before the upgrade, they’d have time to change their <br>> workflows and adapt to a safer way of doing things?<br>><br>> David Cook<br>><br>> Systems Librarian<br>><br>> Prosentient Systems<br>><br>> 72/330 Wattle St<br>><br>> Ultimo, NSW 2007<br>><br>> Australia<br>><br>> Office: 02 9212 0899<br>><br>> Direct: 02 8005 0595<br>><br>> *From:*Chris Cormack [mailto:<a href="mailto:chrisc@catalyst.net.nz" target="_blank">chrisc@catalyst.net.nz</a><wbr>]<br>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 20 June 2018 10:12 AM<br>> *To:* <a href="mailto:koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel@lists.koha-<wbr>community.org</a>; David Cook <br>> <<a href="mailto:dcook@prosentient.com.au" target="_blank">dcook@prosentient.com.au</a>>; 'Liz Rea' <<a href="mailto:liz@catalyst.net.nz" target="_blank">liz@catalyst.net.nz</a>><br>> *Subject:* Re: [Koha-devel] Why we do not push the ACCTDETAILS email <br>> via message queue?<br>><br>> We could make a list of them. It could be the "libraries who don't <br>> care about their users privacy" list.<br>><br>> I'm only mostly joking<br>><br>> Chris<br>><br>> On June 20, 2018 12:06:52 PM GMT+12:00, David Cook <br>> <<a href="mailto:dcook@prosentient.com.au" target="_blank">dcook@prosentient.com.au</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:dcook@prosentient.com.au" target="_blank">dcook@prosentient.com.<wbr>au</a>>> wrote:<br>><br>> I think that would probably be the best way of going about it, but<br>> I’m sure there are a lot of libraries that wouldn’t be happy about<br>> it.<br>><br>> David Cook<br>><br>> Systems Librarian<br>><br>> Prosentient Systems<br>><br>> 72/330 Wattle St<br>><br>> Ultimo, NSW 2007<br>><br>> Australia<br>><br>> Office: 02 9212 0899<br>><br>> Direct: 02 8005 0595<br>><br>> *From:*<a href="mailto:koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel-bounces@<wbr>lists.koha-community.org</a><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel-bounces@<wbr>lists.koha-community.org</a>><br>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel-bounces@<wbr>lists.koha-community.org</a>] *On Behalf Of<br>> *Liz Rea<br>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 19 June 2018 12:26 PM<br>> *To:* <a href="mailto:koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel@lists.koha-<wbr>community.org</a><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel@lists.<wbr>koha-community.org</a>><br>> *Subject:* Re: [Koha-devel] Why we do not push the ACCTDETAILS<br>> email via message queue?<br>><br>> I feel like instead of sending people a password, we should send<br>> them to the "forgot password reset page" with a couple of slight<br>> changes for new account holders, so they can set their own passwords.<br>><br>> Seems better than sending the password in the clear in an email.<br>><br>> Cheers,<br>> Liz<br>><br>> On 19/06/18 12:21, David Cook wrote:<br>><br>> Cheers, Jonathan. I had totally forgotten about that. Yikes.<br>><br>> <br>><br>> Good call, Chris. While I think many mail servers these days use TLS to secure the email between the mail servers, an unscrupulous administrator could still certainly take advantage of people on either end. The best idea probably is to just not use AutoEmailOpacUser, as Jonathan seems to suggest.<br>><br>> <br>><br>> David Cook<br>><br>> Systems Librarian<br>><br>> Prosentient Systems<br>><br>> 72/330 Wattle St<br>><br>> Ultimo, NSW 2007<br>><br>> Australia<br>><br>> <br>><br>> Office: 02 9212 0899<br>><br>> Direct: 02 8005 0595<br>><br>> <br>><br>> From: Jonathan Druart [mailto:<a href="mailto:jonathan.druart@bugs.koha-community.org" target="_blank">jonathan.druart@bugs.<wbr>koha-community.org</a>]<br>><br>> Sent: Tuesday, 19 June 2018 12:07 AM<br>><br>> To: Christopher Nighswonger<<a href="mailto:chris.nighswonger@gmail.com" target="_blank">chris.nighswonger@<wbr>gmail.com</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:chris.nighswonger@gmail.com" target="_blank">chris.nighswonger@<wbr>gmail.com</a>><br>><br>> Cc: David Cook<<a href="mailto:dcook@prosentient.com.au" target="_blank">dcook@prosentient.com.au</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:dcook@prosentient.com.au" target="_blank">dcook@prosentient.com.<wbr>au</a>>; Koha Devel<<a href="mailto:koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel@lists.koha-<wbr>community.org</a>><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel@lists.<wbr>koha-community.org</a>><br>><br>> Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Why we do not push the ACCTDETAILS email via message queue?<br>><br>> <br>><br>> It has been reported (by David) on our bug tracker already (20796, security area, which does no longer make sense at it is public now...)<br>><br>> <br>><br>> For information this notice contains the password in clear for... 10 years now (bug 2149) and the behavior is turned off by default (AutoEmailOpacUser).<br>><br>> <br>><br>> <br>><br>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 10:11 Christopher Nighswonger <<a href="mailto:chris.nighswonger@gmail.com" target="_blank">chris.nighswonger@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:chris.nighswonger@gmail.com" target="_blank">chris.nighswonger@<wbr>gmail.com</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:chris.nighswonger@gmail.com" target="_blank">chris.nighswonger@<wbr>gmail.com</a>><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:chris.nighswonger@gmail.com" target="_blank">chris.nighswonger@<wbr>gmail.com</a>> > wrote:<br>><br>> Considering that email is plaintext (AKA "postcard") mail, I'm surprised we would send a user's password in an email in any case.<br>><br>> <br>><br>> <br>><br>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 4:14 AM, David Cook <<a href="mailto:dcook@prosentient.com.au" target="_blank">dcook@prosentient.com.au</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:dcook@prosentient.com.au" target="_blank">dcook@prosentient.com.<wbr>au</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:dcook@prosentient.com.au" target="_blank">dcook@prosentient.com.<wbr>au</a>><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:dcook@prosentient.com.au" target="_blank">dcook@prosentient.<wbr>com.au</a>> > wrote:<br>><br>> Considering that the borrower’s password is typically in the ACCTDETAILS email, I think using the message_queue for ACCTDETAILS would be a bad idea and would probably violate the GDPR in Europe.<br>><br>> <br>><br>> Just imagine looking through your database and seeing all those plain text passwords, especially for people who re-use the same password for everything. I think it would be a security and privacy nightmare.<br>><br>> <br>><br>> David Cook<br>><br>> Systems Librarian<br>><br>> Prosentient Systems<br>><br>> 72/330 Wattle St<br>><br>> Ultimo, NSW 2007<br>><br>> Australia<br>><br>> <br>><br>> Office: 02 9212 0899 <<a href="tel:02%2092%2012%2008%2099" target="_blank">tel:02%2092%2012%2008%2099</a>> <br>><br>> Direct: 02 8005 0595 <<a href="tel:02%2080%2005%2005%2095" target="_blank">tel:02%2080%2005%2005%2095</a>> <br>><br>> <br>><br>> <a href="mailto:From%3Akoha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">From:koha-devel-bounces@<wbr>lists.koha-community.org</a><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel-bounces@<wbr>lists.koha-community.org</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel-bounces@<wbr>lists.koha-community.org</a>><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel-bounces@<wbr>lists.koha-community.org</a>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel-bounces@<wbr>lists.koha-community.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel-bounces@<wbr>lists.koha-community.org</a>><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel-bounces@<wbr>lists.koha-community.org</a>> ] On Behalf Of Sophie Meynieux<br>><br>> Sent: Friday, 15 June 2018 9:33 PM<br>><br>> <a href="mailto:To%3Akoha-devel@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">To:koha-devel@lists.koha-<wbr>community.org</a><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel@lists.<wbr>koha-community.org</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel@lists.koha-<wbr>community.org</a>><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">koha-devel@lists.<wbr>koha-community.org</a>> <br>><br>> Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Why we do not push the ACCTDETAILS email via message queue?<br>><br>> <br>><br>> Maybe because for this message you're expecting it is sent immediately while message_queue table could be processed more occasionally ?<br>><br>> Best regards<br>><br>> S. Meynieux<br>><br>><br>><br>> _____________________________<wbr>__________________<br>><br>> Koha-devel mailing list<br>><br>> <a href="mailto:Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">Koha-devel@lists.koha-<wbr>community.org</a><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org" target="_blank">Koha-devel@lists.<wbr>koha-community.org</a>><br>><br>> <a href="http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel" target="_blank">http://lists.koha-community.<wbr>org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/<wbr>koha-devel</a><br>><br>> website :<a href="http://www.koha-community.org/" target="_blank">http://www.koha-community.<wbr>org/</a><br>><br>> git :<a href="http://git.koha-community.org/" target="_blank">http://git.koha-community.<wbr>org/</a><br>><br>> bugs :<a href="http://bugs.koha-community.org/" target="_blank">http://bugs.koha-community.<wbr>org/</a><br>><br>> -- <br>><br>> --<br>><br>> Liz Rea<br>><br>> Catalyst.Net Limited<br>><br>> Level 6, Catalyst House,<br>><br>> 150 Willis Street, Wellington.<br>><br>> P.O Box 11053, Manners Street,<br>><br>> Wellington 6142<br>><br>> 04 803 2265<br>><br>> GPG: B149 A443 6B01 7386 C2C7 F481 B6c2 A49D 3726 38B7<br>><br>><br>> -- <br>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. 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