<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:DengXian;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@DengXian";
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}
@font-face
{font-family:remialcxesans;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0cm;
margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;
margin-left:36.0pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:517547482;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:-859944090 201916431 201916441 201916443 201916431 201916441 201916443 201916431 201916441 201916443;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>That’s cool to hear, Marcel! Happy to share my thoughts.<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>A couple reasons I don’t want to use plugins:<o:p></o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>I don’t want to turn on Koha plugins for 100+ different Koha instances around the world.<o:p></o:p></li><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=a><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'>Overall, I think the Koha plugin system is insecure, and allows library staff too much control over the system. I typically keep it disabled with only a few exceptions. (I’ve opened a few bugs and provided a few patches for improving plugin security but they haven’t gone anywhere yet on Bugzilla.)<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'>I also wouldn’t want library staff to potentially meddle with the plugin I install. I think this plugin is really a system plugin rather than a user plugin. It should be invisible to library staff.<o:p></o:p></li></ol><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>I’d be looking to install/upgrade plugin code on 100+ different Koha instances which presents a maintenance challenge<o:p></o:p></li><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=a><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'>While I think some vendors use Ansible to do this, I’m not currently satisfied with the CLI plugin tooling for install/upgrade/downgrade/uninstall. (I’ve done some work on this as well on Bugzilla but the work hasn’t progressed and it’s dropped down my priority list.)<o:p></o:p></li></ol></ol><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:108.0pt;text-indent:-108.0pt;mso-text-indent-alt:-9.0pt;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span>i.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>Using an Ansible push also isn’t an option in some security/operational contexts. In some contexts, you provide artifacts and leave deployment/operations up to a different team<o:p></o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=2 type=1><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=2 type=a><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'>I rather install this “system plugin” 1 time on a server rather than X times. (I think this is something some other vendors have struggled with and worked around as well.)<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'>I’d need to change the instance creation process to install this plugin as well. (Not the end of the world but a bit annoying and introduces more room for errors.)<o:p></o:p></li></ol></ol><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>That said, the hooks already exist, so I can see the appeal, and I can see how they’d work well for other people, especially with fewer Koha instances to manage. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I suppose it mostly comes down to control, security, and maintenance/management. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Also, other systems like Dspace and Fedora write out to message queues out of the box, and it makes it easy to add integrations to them without touching the core application at all. It would be great if Koha could do the same without needing a plugin. (If it were core functionality, we could use it for indexing as well and replace the “zebraqueue”.)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>David Cook<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Senior Software Engineer<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Prosentient Systems<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Suite 7.03<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>6a Glen St<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Milsons Point NSW 2061<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Australia<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Office: 02 9212 0899<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Online: 02 8005 0595<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Koha-devel <koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Marcel de Rooy<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 2 December 2021 6:15 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'koha-devel' <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Koha-devel] [Changed topic] Action hooks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>> I also have a use case where I want to send Koha biblio data elsewhere on create/update/delete, but Koha plugins won't be suitable. I've been thinking that it would be good to publish a message to a RabbitMQ topic on biblio create/update/delete. In fact, that could potentially replace the existing C4::Biblio::_after_biblio_action_hooks and Koha::Item::_after_item_action_hooks functions, and then the background_jobs_worker.pl or some other work could invoke the plugins.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I am running plugins to do the same for some time already. They are pushing these crud actions to a message queue. Works fine for me. Could you tell what makes plugins not suitable for that task?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%" style='width:100.0%'><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#000001'> </span><span style='font-size:1.0pt;font-family:remialcxesans;color:white'></span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#000001'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/nl/zien-en-doen/tentoonstellingen/vergeet-me-niet" target="_blank" id=LPlnk689713><span style='font-size:1.0pt;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=180 height=79 style='width:1.875in;height:.8229in' id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image007.jpg@01D7E82C.733335E0" alt="Vergeet me niet. Van 1 oktober 2021 tot 16 januari 2022."></span></a><span style='font-size:1.0pt;color:#000001'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#000001'><br></span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#000001'></span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#000001'>Ook in het Rijksmuseum:<br></span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#000001'></span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#000001'><a href="https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/nl/zien-en-doen/tentoonstellingen/henk-wildschut" target="_blank" id=LPlnk689713><strong><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#000001;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none'>Document Nederland 2021: Afstand. Henk Wildschut fotografeert corona</span></strong></a><br></span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#000001'></span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#000001'><a href="https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/nl/zien-en-doen?filter=familiemaand" target="_blank" id=LPlnk689713><span style='color:#000001;text-decoration:none'><br></span></a></span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#000001'></span><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#000001'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.instagram.com/rijksmuseum/" target="_blank" id=LPlnk689713><span style='font-size:1.0pt;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=25 height=25 style='width:.2604in;height:.2604in' id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image003.png@01D7E825.B2432DA0"></span></a><span style='font-size:1.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=2 style='width:1.5pt'><tr><td style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:white'>x<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></td><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.facebook.com/rijksmuseum" target="_blank" id=LPlnk689713><span style='font-size:1.0pt;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=25 height=25 style='width:.2604in;height:.2604in' id="Picture_x0020_3" src="cid:image004.png@01D7E825.B2432DA0"></span></a><span style='font-size:1.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:white'>x<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/rijksmuseum/" target="_blank" id=LPlnk689713><span style='font-size:1.0pt;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=25 height=25 style='width:.2604in;height:.2604in' id="Picture_x0020_4" src="cid:image005.png@01D7E825.B2432DA0"></span></a><span style='font-size:1.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:white'>x<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://twitter.com/rijksmuseum" target="_blank" id=LPlnk689713><span style='font-size:1.0pt;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=25 height=25 style='width:.2604in;height:.2604in' id="Picture_x0020_5" src="cid:image006.png@01D7E825.B2432DA0"></span></a><span style='font-size:1.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></td></tr><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#00B050'><br></span></b><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#00B050'></span></b><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#00B050'>Please think before you print<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>