https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39314 Jonathan Druart <jonathan.druart@gmail.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |jonathan.druart@gmail.com -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39314 --- Comment #2 from David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> --- A dedicated sysadmin who knows to look out for the RabbitMQ issue could perform a RabbitMQ reinstall without a problem. But for someone without sysadmin support... there could be problems depending when the upgrade is performed. =- I'm trying to think of workarounds that tried to determine if there was any pending messages and re-queue or otherwise deal with those messages... but it would probably be messy. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39314 --- Comment #4 from David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> --- (In reply to Victor Grousset/tuxayo from comment #3)

...

A dedicated sysadmin who knows to look out for the RabbitMQ issue could perform a RabbitMQ reinstall without a problem

They would have to find a package somewhere for the latest 3.X just for the upgrade. Still quite the hassle >_<

Sure, but it's not uncommon. I think Keycloak requires stepped upgrades for certain versions. PostgreSQL too for really old versions. We try to make things seamless for people, but I think there needs to be limits too. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39314 --- Comment #6 from Jonathan Druart <jonathan.druart@gmail.com> --- There is also https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1104149 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39314 --- Comment #7 from Jonathan Druart <jonathan.druart@gmail.com> --- Is this still valid? https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1104149#10 "I wasn't able to reproduce, so probably it does work now?" -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39314 --- Comment #9 from Victor Grousset/tuxayo <victor@tuxayo.net> --- On the Debian side, there isn't much they can do without causing other issues. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1100165#44 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1100165#51 At least there are some strategies:

Heavy RabbitMQ users that cannot reset their /var/lib/rabbitmq/mnesia database could maybe use upstream docker image to attempt a rolling upgrade. Otherwise, users are advised to simply drain all queues and make clients point to a new cluster if that's possible.

At least the Debian release notes should warn about this:

writing about it in the Trixie release notes

I don't know about Ubuntu. And whether that's enough anyway. Should we put a note on the release notes of Bug 41077? Wait, that wouldn't work since there is no patch. Same if we put something in the release notes here. Any ideas? (In reply to David Cook from comment #1)

tuxayo:

...

For us: is there still data in RabbitMQ when stopping a Koha instance and upgrading it? [...]

[...] What this means is that if you stopped koha-common, nuked RabbitMQ, re-installed RabbitMQ, and started koha-common, you could have data loss if there were any messages in RabbitMQ that hadn't been processed.

Is it something that regularly happens? (have messages in RabbitMQ that haven't been processed) With the reasonable assumption that people don't upgrade Koha in the middle of a day with librarians doing things that use the queue/workers. Or is it something that totally happens? Maybe the assumption is wrong or there is another source of messages that is unavoidable. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39314 Oliver Behnke <oliver.behnke@aei.mpg.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |oliver.behnke@aei.mpg.de --- Comment #10 from Oliver Behnke <oliver.behnke@aei.mpg.de> --- Just ran into this issue myself and resolved it (before I came here) by "simply" installing the intermediate versions required, one by one, enabling their feature flags accordingly. Pretty annoying but I honestly don't see a way around that, presuming that Debian releases will always jump accross a few minor releases of RabbitMQ. It's all outlined in [1] and [2]. That latter also tells you which intermediate releases you need to install: - Look at the first column ("Require") of that table and find the next version higher than your current one *and* where the second column ("Stable") has a version higher than your's - Then check the second column and find the highest version: that's your next target - Install it, enable all features, then repeat For example: 1) Debian bookworm provides 3.10.8 which means 3.12.0 is the next upgrade step that needs flags which your version doesn't yet include. So you want to upgrade to at least 3.11.0 in this case (the latest revision is 3.11.28) to prepare for 3.12 2) Debian trixie comes with 4.0.5 which also happens to be the next upgrade target to prepare for. According to the flags table 3.13.1 is the latest release introducing a new flag for 4.0, so that's what we install (the latest revision is 3.13.28). Note: there's no need to install 3.12 first since 3.13 did *not* have any additional flag requirements. However, to make things worse RabbitMQ releases depend on different Erlang versions. And to make it even more worse, they require a specific major version. E.g. 3.10 depends on Erlang 25, whereas 3.13 depends on Erlang 26, while 4.0 depends on Erlang 27. Yeah, so we also get to mess with those! Fortunately, they provide Debian repos [3] for Erlang and RabbitMQ making things a bit easier. But be sure to pin those repos if you want to stick to Debian's packages by default. Hope this helps [1] https://www.rabbitmq.com/blog/2022/07/20/required-feature-flags-in-rabbitmq-... [2] https://www.rabbitmq.com/docs/feature-flags#core-feature-flags [3] https://www.rabbitmq.com/docs/install-debian#apt-repositories -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39314 davewood@gmx.at changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |davewood@gmx.at --- Comment #11 from davewood@gmx.at --- @Oliver Behnke I think you made a mistake with the rabbitmq versions. There is no version 3.13.28 according to https://www.rabbitmq.com/release-information Latest 3.13.x release is 3.13.7 ps: thanks for the infos you shared! -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39314 --- Comment #13 from Oliver Behnke <oliver.behnke@aei.mpg.de> --- (In reply to davewood from comment #11)

I think you made a mistake with the rabbitmq versions.

There is no version 3.13.28 according to https://www.rabbitmq.com/release-information

Latest 3.13.x release is 3.13.7

Oops, you're right. I probably confused the patch level with 3.11.28 (above). Sorry.

ps: thanks for the infos you shared!

Glad they helped. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.