[Bug 39127] New: When a table is wider than the page, the slider should move the table and not the whole page
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 Bug ID: 39127 Summary: When a table is wider than the page, the slider should move the table and not the whole page Change sponsored?: --- Product: Koha Version: Main Hardware: All OS: All Status: NEW Severity: enhancement Priority: P5 - low Component: Staff interface Assignee: koha-bugs@lists.koha-community.org Reporter: mathsabypro@gmail.com QA Contact: testopia@bugs.koha-community.org CC: gmcharlt@gmail.com When a table is wider than the page, a lateral slider is displayed at the bottom of the page. This slider should be displayed just under the table, and move only the table and not the whole page. It would be an UX impovement : viewing a large table shouldn't break the whole design of the page and make the side menu on the left of the page invisible. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 Lauren Denny <lauren_denny@sil.org> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |lauren_denny@sil.org -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #1 from Owen Leonard <oleonard@myacpl.org> --- I think it's much more difficult to find and use the overflow scroll bar than the browser's. It's also a very poor user experience if the table is big enough to require vertical scrolling as well. I might be looking at the top row, then be forced to scroll all the way to the bottom to find the horizontal scroll bar. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 Lisette Scheer <lisette@bywatersolutions.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |lisette@bywatersolutions.co | |m --- Comment #2 from Lisette Scheer <lisette@bywatersolutions.com> --- https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/tips/ Flexibility: Due to the layout model of tables, they sometimes don’t fit on small screens small or are too wide if the user is zooming in. In such circumstances, it’s important that the table isn’t cut off (for example by using overflow: hidden in CSS). In these tutorials overflow: scroll is applied to an element wrapping the table so users can scroll through the table horizontally but there are much more options to display table in such circumstances. We might need to adjust styling if the horizontal scroll is difficult to use. Datatables also has Xscroll and that might have some options for making horizontal scroll easier to use. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |dcook@prosentient.com.au --- Comment #3 from David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> --- It's certainly a tricky issue. I agree with Mathieu that the whole page design shouldn't be compromised by one wide table. But then I also agree with Owen that the overflow scrollbar can be annoying to use too. -- Maybe we're looking at the problem from the wrong angle? I was just thinking about the circ rules table... and now I'm wondering why we don't actually just organise those rules into multiple tables with headings... -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #4 from David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> --- I suppose another thing to think about sometimes is... are tables always the right answer for displaying the content? Historically, tables were often used for styling, but that's changed over the years. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #5 from David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> --- (In reply to David Cook from comment #4)
I suppose another thing to think about sometimes is... are tables always the right answer for displaying the content?
Historically, tables were often used for styling, but that's changed over the years.
Sorry not used for styling. Used for layout. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #6 from Mathieu Saby <mathsabypro@gmail.com> --- What I can tell you is that more and more of the professional tools I use outside of Koha are designed with sticky menus on the left or at the top, and a scroll bar to navigate through columns of data if there are too many. This is the case, for example, with the “Electre” database used in France (which lists all published books) and whose interface was recently completely redesigned. The more I use it, the less I appreciate Koha’s current design... -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #7 from Mathieu Saby <mathsabypro@gmail.com> --- I think it's also the design of the ILS Folio -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 Brendan Lawlor <blawlor@clamsnet.org> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |blawlor@clamsnet.org -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #8 from David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> --- (In reply to Mathieu Saby from comment #6)
What I can tell you is that more and more of the professional tools I use outside of Koha are designed with sticky menus on the left or at the top, and a scroll bar to navigate through columns of data if there are too many.
Honestly, I hadn't really thought about it but that's interesting. I suppose a lot of music apps, Mattermost, Slack, Teams, AI tools, Docker documentation, Confluence, etc all have that sticky left menu and top menu. Wikipedia has sticky menus on the left and right. The latest DSpace has a collapsed sticky left menu in their staff interface. I suppose Excel online has those sticky top and left menus, so it has scroll bars vertically and horizontally.
This is the case, for example, with the “Electre” database used in France (which lists all published books) and whose interface was recently completely redesigned. The more I use it, the less I appreciate Koha’s current design...
Hmm now that I think about it and compare to other sites... I think I see merit to what you're saying. At least for the staff interface. OPACs... every library wants something different there. But for the staff interface... yeah interesting. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #9 from David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> --- (In reply to Owen Leonard from comment #1)
I think it's much more difficult to find and use the overflow scroll bar than the browser's.
It's also a very poor user experience if the table is big enough to require vertical scrolling as well. I might be looking at the top row, then be forced to scroll all the way to the bottom to find the horizontal scroll bar.
So I think the UX is such that the horizontal bar is present from the start, so you can scroll horizontally or vertically. I suppose it depends on the UI. While that makes sense for Excel, it might not make sense for other things. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #10 from David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> --- It makes me laugh though because back in the '90s we used HTML <frame> elements to divide up the screen, and then that fell out of popularity to the point where it's a deprecated/dropped feature in browsers. Maybe history really is cyclical... -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #11 from David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> --- I don't know. The more I think about it, the more I don't hate the idea. In terms of screen real estate, the same amount would be used for the main content, but there would be a nicer experience in terms of top and left navigation. And wide content wouldn't break the overall design (I'm looking at you circulation and fines rules...) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #12 from Owen Leonard <oleonard@myacpl.org> --- (In reply to David Cook from comment #11)
And wide content wouldn't break the overall design (I'm looking at you circulation and fines rules...)
I worry that we are too concerned about the design being "broken" than we are about whether the alternative is more usable. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #13 from David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> --- (In reply to Owen Leonard from comment #12)
(In reply to David Cook from comment #11)
And wide content wouldn't break the overall design (I'm looking at you circulation and fines rules...)
I worry that we are too concerned about the design being "broken" than we are about whether the alternative is more usable.
🤷♂️ -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #14 from David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> --- (In reply to Owen Leonard from comment #12)
(In reply to David Cook from comment #11)
And wide content wouldn't break the overall design (I'm looking at you circulation and fines rules...)
I worry that we are too concerned about the design being "broken" than we are about whether the alternative is more usable.
I think one could argue the status quo for circulation and fines rules isn't very usable. But... I agree that changing to horizontal scrolling is not necessarily the answer. I thought that you (or maybe someone else) wrote a circ rule re-vamp some time ago? Curious what happened with that.. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #15 from Owen Leonard <oleonard@myacpl.org> --- (In reply to David Cook from comment #14)
I thought that you (or maybe someone else) wrote a circ rule re-vamp some time ago? Curious what happened with that..
Maybe you're thinking of Bug 15522 ? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- See Also| |https://bugs.koha-community | |.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi | |?id=15522 CC| |agustin.moyano@gmail.com, | |agustinmoyano@theke.io, | |katrin.fischer@bsz-bw.de, | |tomascohen@gmail.com --- Comment #16 from David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> --- (In reply to Owen Leonard from comment #15)
(In reply to David Cook from comment #14)
I thought that you (or maybe someone else) wrote a circ rule re-vamp some time ago? Curious what happened with that..
Maybe you're thinking of Bug 15522 ?
Ah yes I think that's it. Looking over some of Agustin's comments... I think his approach is similar to what I was thinking. Might be interesting to see if Theke wanted to revive that especially given how Vue usage has been increasing lately. This could be a good opportunity to get more of us familiarised with the Koha Vue in a part of Koha that we actually use. Hmmmm... -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- See Also| |https://bugs.koha-community | |.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi | |?id=41439 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #17 from David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> --- En fait... I think bug 41439 could be a very workable solution. Combining the best of multiple worlds perhaps. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #18 from Katrin Fischer <katrin.fischer@bsz-bw.de> --- (In reply to David Cook from comment #17)
En fait... I think bug 41439 could be a very workable solution. Combining the best of multiple worlds perhaps.
We discussed at the hackfest on how to improve the circulation rules table and I think splitting into tabs and maybe turning the table into an "editable table" ranked most highly on the list. We had to POC for a circulation editor rewrite when we were discussing Angular JS and React I believe, but both didn't totally persuade me usability wise for the day-to-day use cases. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=39127 --- Comment #19 from David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> --- (In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #18)
(In reply to David Cook from comment #17)
En fait... I think bug 41439 could be a very workable solution. Combining the best of multiple worlds perhaps.
We discussed at the hackfest on how to improve the circulation rules table and I think splitting into tabs and maybe turning the table into an "editable table" ranked most highly on the list.
We had to POC for a circulation editor rewrite when we were discussing Angular JS and React I believe, but both didn't totally persuade me usability wise for the day-to-day use cases.
Yeah fair enough. Makes sense to me. I only have a part day today because of Easter but hoping to look at bug 41439 soon -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
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