Replacement of mailman (mailing lists)
Hi devs, Should we keep the historical mailing list or move to something modern, like discourse or flarum? Is it something: - we really want/need - we don't want/need - neat we could have Currently the lists are not maintained (messages are not reviewed/no moderation), the mailman version is old, looks like there are a lot of email bounding, etc. Asking for koha-devel first. Cheers, Jonathan
Hi Jonathan, I haven't used any of the alternatives, so cannot tell what advantages they might bring. Maybe you or others can share their experiences? If we decide not to switch to another software, updating and naming moderators would certainly be a good thing. Katrin On 03.06.21 15:07, Jonathan Druart wrote:
Hi devs,
Should we keep the historical mailing list or move to something modern, like discourse or flarum? Is it something: - we really want/need - we don't want/need - neat we could have
Currently the lists are not maintained (messages are not reviewed/no moderation), the mailman version is old, looks like there are a lot of email bounding, etc.
Asking for koha-devel first.
Cheers, Jonathan _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : https://www.koha-community.org/ git : https://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/
Hi, On 03/06/2021 16:07, Jonathan Druart wrote:
Should we keep the historical mailing list or move to something modern, like discourse or flarum? Is it something: - we really want/need - we don't want/need - neat we could have
I personally don't have a need for forum type of solution, and I actually prefer mailing lists so I can have all updates from all different projects at one inbox.
Currently the lists are not maintained (messages are not reviewed/no moderation), the mailman version is old, looks like there are a lot of email bounding, etc.
Besides the emails bounding issue, the maintenance burden would be the same with forum software, right? Also, regarding this specific case of mailman being outdated, would it be possible to just enable unattended-upgrades (if debian based server) with automatic reboot to solve this? About email moderation, I have not noticed getting any spam through this mailing list. If the email is not accepted won't it bounce so if someone wants to send something (like a big file) they can contact via irc or other channels to say there is a problem. Joonas
Le jeu. 3 juin 2021 à 20:59, Joonas Kylmälä <joonas.kylmala@helsinki.fi> a écrit :
Hi,
On 03/06/2021 16:07, Jonathan Druart wrote:
Should we keep the historical mailing list or move to something modern, like discourse or flarum? Is it something: - we really want/need - we don't want/need - neat we could have
I personally don't have a need for forum type of solution, and I actually prefer mailing lists so I can have all updates from all different projects at one inbox.
I think that the two solutions I suggested can be used as a mailing list.
Currently the lists are not maintained (messages are not reviewed/no moderation), the mailman version is old, looks like there are a lot of email bounding, etc.
Besides the emails bounding issue, the maintenance burden would be the same with forum software, right? Also, regarding this specific case of mailman being outdated, would it be possible to just enable unattended-upgrades (if debian based server) with automatic reboot to solve this?
The problem is that the upgrade from v2 to v3 is not trivial apparently.
About email moderation, I have not noticed getting any spam through this mailing list. If the email is not accepted won't it bounce so if someone wants to send something (like a big file) they can contact via irc or other channels to say there is a problem.
There is work that needs to be done on the server, upgrade + maintenance, and maybe reinstall/move of the server. For instance, on the server: "400 undelivered mail return to the sender", "The user you are trying to contact is receiving mail at a rate that 550-5.2.1 prevents additional messages from being delivered", etc. There are tons like that and it's not good for server's ip reputation. The question is: do we make the work to keep mailman, or do we consider it obsolete and we need something more modern? And I have no idea I will have time to dedicate to this task anyway, volunteers are welcome to help!
Hi :) On 21-06-04 16:03, Jonathan Druart wrote:
The question is: do we make the work to keep mailman, or do we consider it obsolete and we need something more modern?
I think that a forum software would help users ask and answer more questions. As well as having them indexed by search engines. "Just" upgrading mailman to v3 and more administrating would be nice for the reasons you exposed. And v2 still stores the passwords as plaintext. And as a provocation (or honesty?) it sends them back to oneself every month ^^ Anyway, that would still be a good outcome. The final outcome might depend more on who are in a good position to do one of the paths. Anyone(s)[1] feeling like being such a position? Cheers, -- Victor Grousset/tuxayo [1] I know it's not valid english :P
Hi all, Like Victor, I think this is a good idea to provide a dedicate space like discourse. For example, see what the omeka community offers : https://forum.omeka.org/ It would allow more involvement of the community and also encourage the sharing of practices. The benefit is also that answers to questions are more easily discoverable (organization by category, indexing) so it works as a knowledge base useful to the whole community. I also see the opportunity to merge in one point all the koha communities by using groups (geographical or languages communities like kohala in France that use separate mail discussion list). Best, Julien
Le 23 juin 2021 à 02:49, Victor Grousset/tuxayo <victor@tuxayo.net> a écrit :
Hi :)
On 21-06-04 16:03, Jonathan Druart wrote:
The question is: do we make the work to keep mailman, or do we consider it obsolete and we need something more modern?
I think that a forum software would help users ask and answer more questions. As well as having them indexed by search engines.
"Just" upgrading mailman to v3 and more administrating would be nice for the reasons you exposed. And v2 still stores the passwords as plaintext. And as a provocation (or honesty?) it sends them back to oneself every month ^^ Anyway, that would still be a good outcome.
The final outcome might depend more on who are in a good position to do one of the paths. Anyone(s)[1] feeling like being such a position?
Cheers,
-- Victor Grousset/tuxayo
[1] I know it's not valid english :P _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : https://www.koha-community.org/ git : https://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/
On 21-06-23 12:27, Julien Sicot wrote> I also see the opportunity to merge in one point all the koha communities by using groups (geographical or languages communities like kohala in France that use separate mail discussion list). Yes, this is great! It would be a very easy way to create a discussion space for sub-communities. Without a website or mailing list. And it would be very discoverable. As someone must be lucky to stumble on this page: https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Users_Groups While we are at it, anything missing on it? ^^ Cheers, -- Victor Grousset/tuxayo
Hi! I created the Spanish community group back in 2008, recently moved to mailman. I'd be more than happy if we move to something much more modern/featureful/integratable and overall useful as Discourse (created by Jeff Atwood (creator of Stack Overflow)). I believe this would give a major boost to Koha communities. Cheers, Pablo
It does seem like Discourse is reasonably popular although I’ve only engaged with it from the forum perspective. It looks like it does have mailing list support but I don’t know what that means exactly. David Cook Senior Software Engineer Prosentient Systems Suite 7.03 6a Glen St Milsons Point NSW 2061 Australia Office: 02 9212 0899 Online: 02 8005 0595 From: Koha-devel <koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org> On Behalf Of Pablo Bianchi Sent: Thursday, 19 August 2021 4:31 PM To: Jonathan Druart <jonathan.druart@bugs.koha-community.org> Cc: koha-devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Replacement of mailman (mailing lists) Hi! I created the Spanish community group back in 2008, recently moved to mailman. I'd be more than happy if we move to something much more modern/featureful/integratable and overall useful as Discourse (created by Jeff Atwood (creator of Stack Overflow)). I believe this would give a major boost to Koha communities. Cheers, Pablo
On 21-08-19 08:42, dcook@prosentient.com.au wrote:
It does seem like Discourse is reasonably popular although I’ve only engaged with it from the forum perspective. It looks like it does have mailing list support but I don’t know what that means exactly.
https://meta.discourse.org/t/what-is-mailing-list-mode/46008
In mailing list mode you will receive one email per post, as happens with traditional mailing lists. This is desirable if you prefer to interact via email, without visiting the forum website.
https://meta.discourse.org/t/what-is-mailing-list-mode/46008/10
Yes, provided you configure “email reply support” appropriately
I just checked on an instance and it's possible to watch a category. It would have the same effect as subscribing to a mailing list. --- Also, it's possible if it's worth the work to import a mailing list. https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-vs-email-mailing-lists/54298/1 see => How do I import my mailing list? => My organisation manages multiple mailing lists. Can they be imported incrementally? Cheers, -- Victor Grousset/tuxayo
Discourse sounds good to me too.. something to work on next cycle? Do we have a host in mind? On Fri, 20 Aug 2021, 12:47 am Victor Grousset/tuxayo, <victor@tuxayo.net> wrote:
On 21-08-19 08:42, dcook@prosentient.com.au wrote:
It does seem like Discourse is reasonably popular although I’ve only engaged with it from the forum perspective. It looks like it does have mailing list support but I don’t know what that means exactly.
https://meta.discourse.org/t/what-is-mailing-list-mode/46008
In mailing list mode you will receive one email per post, as happens with traditional mailing lists. This is desirable if you prefer to interact via email, without visiting the forum website.
https://meta.discourse.org/t/what-is-mailing-list-mode/46008/10
Yes, provided you configure “email reply support” appropriately
I just checked on an instance and it's possible to watch a category. It would have the same effect as subscribing to a mailing list.
---
Also, it's possible if it's worth the work to import a mailing list. https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-vs-email-mailing-lists/54298/1
see => How do I import my mailing list?
=> My organisation manages multiple mailing lists. Can they be imported incrementally?
Cheers,
-- Victor Grousset/tuxayo _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : https://www.koha-community.org/ git : https://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/
Did we have any further discussion about Discourse? I’ve decided to use it for a different project, so I’ve looked at setting it up today. The installation instructions aren’t perfect, so I had to do some of my own troubleshooting, and they use custom scripts to orchestrate instead of using Docker Compose which makes me a bit uncomfortable (see https://meta.discourse.org/t/community-supported-official-docker-image/83768...), but overall it went fairly smoothly. Actually going to be looking at migrating an old listserv over to it, so I can probably give more details as I do that. David Cook Senior Software Engineer Prosentient Systems Suite 7.03 6a Glen St Milsons Point NSW 2061 Australia Office: 02 9212 0899 Online: 02 8005 0595 From: Koha-devel <koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org> On Behalf Of Renvoize, Martin Sent: Saturday, 2 October 2021 4:28 PM To: Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Replacement of mailman (mailing lists) Discourse sounds good to me too.. something to work on next cycle? Do we have a host in mind? On Fri, 20 Aug 2021, 12:47 am Victor Grousset/tuxayo, <victor@tuxayo.net <mailto:victor@tuxayo.net> > wrote: On 21-08-19 08:42, dcook@prosentient.com.au <mailto:dcook@prosentient.com.au> wrote:
It does seem like Discourse is reasonably popular although I’ve only engaged with it from the forum perspective. It looks like it does have mailing list support but I don’t know what that means exactly.
https://meta.discourse.org/t/what-is-mailing-list-mode/46008
In mailing list mode you will receive one email per post, as happens with traditional mailing lists. This is desirable if you prefer to interact via email, without visiting the forum website.
https://meta.discourse.org/t/what-is-mailing-list-mode/46008/10
Yes, provided you configure “email reply support” appropriately
I just checked on an instance and it's possible to watch a category. It would have the same effect as subscribing to a mailing list. --- Also, it's possible if it's worth the work to import a mailing list. https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-vs-email-mailing-lists/54298/1 see => How do I import my mailing list? => My organisation manages multiple mailing lists. Can they be imported incrementally? Cheers, -- Victor Grousset/tuxayo _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org <mailto:Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : https://www.koha-community.org/ git : https://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/
Sure, sounds great. I know it from LXD https://discuss.linuxcontainers.org/ This can be a topic for next cycle. Best regards, Le 01/11/2021 à 20:09, dcook@prosentient.com.au a écrit :
Did we have any further discussion about Discourse?
I’ve decided to use it for a different project, so I’ve looked at setting it up today. The installation instructions aren’t perfect, so I had to do some of my own troubleshooting, and they use custom scripts to orchestrate instead of using Docker Compose which makes me a bit uncomfortable (see https://meta.discourse.org/t/community-supported-official-docker-image/83768... <https://meta.discourse.org/t/community-supported-official-docker-image/83768/18>), but overall it went fairly smoothly.
Actually going to be looking at migrating an old listserv over to it, so I can probably give more details as I do that.
David Cook
Senior Software Engineer
Prosentient Systems
Suite 7.03
6a Glen St
Milsons Point NSW 2061
Australia
Office: 02 9212 0899
Online: 02 8005 0595
*From:*Koha-devel <koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org> *On Behalf Of *Renvoize, Martin *Sent:* Saturday, 2 October 2021 4:28 PM *To:* Koha Devel <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> *Subject:* Re: [Koha-devel] Replacement of mailman (mailing lists)
Discourse sounds good to me too.. something to work on next cycle?
Do we have a host in mind?
On Fri, 20 Aug 2021, 12:47 am Victor Grousset/tuxayo, <victor@tuxayo.net <mailto:victor@tuxayo.net>> wrote:
On 21-08-19 08:42, dcook@prosentient.com.au <mailto:dcook@prosentient.com.au> wrote: > It does seem like Discourse is reasonably popular although I’ve only > engaged with it from the forum perspective. It looks like it does have > mailing list support but I don’t know what that means exactly.
https://meta.discourse.org/t/what-is-mailing-list-mode/46008 <https://meta.discourse.org/t/what-is-mailing-list-mode/46008> > In mailing list mode you will receive one email per post, as happens with traditional mailing lists. This is desirable if you prefer to interact via email, without visiting the forum website.
https://meta.discourse.org/t/what-is-mailing-list-mode/46008/10 <https://meta.discourse.org/t/what-is-mailing-list-mode/46008/10> > Yes, provided you configure “email reply support” appropriately
I just checked on an instance and it's possible to watch a category. It would have the same effect as subscribing to a mailing list.
---
Also, it's possible if it's worth the work to import a mailing list. https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-vs-email-mailing-lists/54298/1 <https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-vs-email-mailing-lists/54298/1>
see => How do I import my mailing list?
=> My organisation manages multiple mailing lists. Can they be imported incrementally?
Cheers,
-- Victor Grousset/tuxayo _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org <mailto:Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel <https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel> website : https://www.koha-community.org/ <https://www.koha-community.org/> git : https://git.koha-community.org/ <https://git.koha-community.org/> bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/ <https://bugs.koha-community.org/>
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : https://www.koha-community.org/ git : https://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/
-- Fridolin SOMERS <fridolin.somers@biblibre.com> Software and system maintainer 🦄 BibLibre, France
participants (9)
-
dcook＠prosentient.com.au -
Fridolin SOMERS -
Jonathan Druart -
Joonas Kylmälä -
Julien Sicot -
Katrin Fischer -
Pablo Bianchi -
Renvoize, Martin -
Victor Grousset/tuxayo