We've now got two patches pending which seek to add more options to the default OPAC search, the masthead search bar which currently includes options for Library catalog, title, author, subject, ISBN, series, and call number: Add "Phrase" Searching to OPAC Search http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8778 Add accesssion [barcode] number to the drop down list in OPAC Search http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8302 I'll say right out that I'm opposed to these changes, but I want to bring it up here on the list so we can discuss. I think the default search options which appear in this space need to be limited and simple. I come from the point of view of public libraries, so my goal is to make it easy for someone to walk up to the OPAC and start searching. In my opinion these options should be available only on the advanced search page. My concern is that when we add some of these more complex options we're catering not to the public but to librarians using the OPAC, and I think those librarians' needs are not our primary focus in this interface. I also think that our search system needs to be so good that keyword + relevance wins over specific searches like "title phrase." That said, I'm aware that the public library is only one of many types of libraries, and that other libraries have different needs. Are these needs varied enough that we need to build an interface in the staff client for selecting which search options are shown in the OPAC? -- Owen -- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
Hi Owen, I am not feeling comfortable with adding more search options to the masthead search bar too. As you wrote it should be simple to use and we already offer a lot of options there. One of the bugs noted that the full functionality can not be achieved by using jQuery, so maybe we can find another compromise. Perhaps this needs to be made configurable sometime in the future. Could we make it easy to use CSS to hide or even 'unhide' some of the options? Katrin
-----Original Message----- From: koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:koha-devel- bounces@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Owen Leonard Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 3:59 PM To: koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org Subject: [Koha-devel] Default search options in the OPAC
We've now got two patches pending which seek to add more options to the default OPAC search, the masthead search bar which currently includes options for Library catalog, title, author, subject, ISBN, series, and call number:
Add "Phrase" Searching to OPAC Search http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8778
Add accesssion [barcode] number to the drop down list in OPAC Search http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8302
I'll say right out that I'm opposed to these changes, but I want to bring it up here on the list so we can discuss.
I think the default search options which appear in this space need to be limited and simple. I come from the point of view of public libraries, so my goal is to make it easy for someone to walk up to the OPAC and start searching. In my opinion these options should be available only on the advanced search page. My concern is that when we add some of these more complex options we're catering not to the public but to librarians using the OPAC, and I think those librarians' needs are not our primary focus in this interface.
I also think that our search system needs to be so good that keyword + relevance wins over specific searches like "title phrase."
That said, I'm aware that the public library is only one of many types of libraries, and that other libraries have different needs.
Are these needs varied enough that we need to build an interface in the staff client for selecting which search options are shown in the OPAC?
-- Owen
-- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha- community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
Salvete!
I am not feeling comfortable with adding more search options to the masthead search bar too. As you wrote it should be simple to use and we already offer a lot of options there.
One of the bugs noted that the full functionality can not be achieved by using jQuery, so maybe we can find another compromise.
Perhaps this needs to be made configurable sometime in the future. Could we make it easy to use CSS to hide or even 'unhide' some of the options?
This sounds like an idea for an interface and usability panel or committee. Would it be a helpful starting point if I screenshot what folks are talking about and then rearrange it how it would look in my world? I think some of the struggle we face in preferences now is from there still being a One Koha To Bind Them All in the stead of modules that are specific to different Library types. Yes, I do realise that I don't have any money for building modules, but it won't stop me from thinking that different preset out of the box skins and preference set ups would save a lot of user and vendor time in the long run. I appreciate you all for at least talking about it. It's part of what makes us different from ye olde proprietary vendors. :) Cheers, Brooke
Hi, On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:46 AM, BWS Johnson <abesottedphoenix@yahoo.com> wrote:
This sounds like an idea for an interface and usability panel or committee.
Building on that idea, are there any Koha libraries who have the bandwidth to conduct usability testing and experimentation (informally or formally) with this kind of proposed feature? Regards, Galen -- Galen Charlton Director of Implementation Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts email: gmc@esilibrary.com direct: +1 770-709-5581 cell: +1 404-984-4366 skype: gmcharlt web: http://www.esilibrary.com/ Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org & http://evergreen-ils.org
Would it be a helpful starting point if I screenshot what folks are talking about and then rearrange it how it would look in my world?
What do you mean by "how it would look in my world?" -- Owen -- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
Salvete!
Would it be a helpful starting point if I screenshot what folks are talking about and then rearrange it how it would look in my world?
What do you mean by "how it would look in my world?"
I mean how I'd do it if I were empress of everything and could code. In reality, folks in community need to decide how they want stuff, but I'm wondering if seeing summat to vote on would be more helpful than talking about stuff that doesn't exist whatsoever yet. It's often helpful in planning to come with a plan then alter it to the needs of whoever you're planning for. However, I know a lot of process based stuff is unfun and unrewarding for developers so I'm trying to avoid following my consultant twitches. So similar to how I did my presentation in India which was also based off of how I saw Cataloguing and blogged about it. :) Cheers, Brooke
I mean how I'd do it if I were empress of everything and could code.
We could all chime in about which features we think are the most important, and we'd have as many different views. The questions I want to get at: - Is it a (mostly-) common goal that the OPAC default search options be simple and few? - If not, should the solution be something more structured than javascript-based customizations? -- Owen -- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
Am 18.09.2012 18:27, schrieb Owen Leonard:
- Is it a (mostly-) common goal that the OPAC default search options be simple and few?
This patch just expands the choice in the drop down list from 7 to 8 options (), and the meaning of the additional choice is clear. I do not think that users will get lost in complexity with this additional choice. I signed off because somebody seems to need this additional option - otherwise no patch would have been submitted.
- If not, should the solution be something more structured than javascript-based customizations?
Agree - but this is something that could easily be done for a future release, e.g. some syspref setting where you can choose what to display in the search options. Marc
Salvete! My inclination is that I'm answering this too soon and that I've not thought enough about your questions in particular, but I've thought over structure in general and I want to honour an expedient timeframe for your question in especial.
We could all chime in about which features we think are the most important, and we'd have as many different views. The questions I want to get at:
Niyayo, but it is not unusual to see a pattern after preference voting. We all want the conference different places, but a vote settles where we hold Conference in a given year. I realise that features and Conferences are different birds. I am glad that you highlighted that which is important to you. That is why I suggested a committee or some sort of group work. We will all like different things. The power here is seeing a pattern.
- Is it a (mostly-) common goal that the OPAC default search options be simple and few?
There are two OPACs as things are currently. While our Patrons are not dumb, I feel that we did our best as a Community when we had a simple text search box as the first thing a user saw in our Catalogue for Patrons. I realise that this was quite a long while ago, but I still think that the search from 2.X - just the box first - was the best. To my perhaps faulty recollection, a user could toggle to advance search if they wanted interface clutter in their lives so that they could hone in on specifics. This is very similar to the evil Google, I realise. I think it is safe to assume that Librarians ought to be more proficient than most Patrons. (My weasel words are in there as an acknowledgement that sometimes this is not always the case. In the rare exceptions, it would not be out of the pail for a Librarian to grant a highly proficient Patron, such as a Bibliographer, Staff Access. But programme first for the rule then for the exception, yes?) So for the Staff search, I think the common goals can be arrived at in few and in order of frequency of encounter within one's daily routine. I would advise breaking skins or templates into Library types (small rural Public (or just Public to start), large private Academic, et cetera.) So, in my world, one has a matrix of Library type: Academic, Public, School, Special and there's another toggle for size: Large, Medium, Small. It's complex, but finite. Granular, but not overwhelming. At least to my pea sized brain. Your mileage may vary.
- If not, should the solution be something more structured than javascript-based customizations?
I think you have a very good handle for local customisations. I remember thinking "Oh, if only I could change things just a touch so that I could add my Library's picture and name." You and others made this happen. :) That was more than I ever really thought I'd see since it was a good "It would be nice if" enhancement. I think some folks are always going to customise their OPAC, but I think there will be natural variance from site to site. Wordpressesque skins are a good way to address this added personal touch that perhaps not everyone would care for. We've had brilliant response to SQL reports in terms of contributions, and now I think we are building the same sort of base of jQuery stuff. Perhaps skins would be another bank of stuff that might build, or perhaps not given the way templates are. I don't know. In short, (too late, I know!) two dials are better than one here given that they're both logically constructed, which I think is best done with users working in concert with developers. Not that we don't already do that. Cheers, Brooke
On 18 September 2012 15:58, Owen Leonard <oleonard@myacpl.org> wrote:
We've now got two patches pending which seek to add more options to the default OPAC search, the masthead search bar which currently includes options for Library catalog, title, author, subject, ISBN, series, and call number:
Add "Phrase" Searching to OPAC Search http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8778
Add accesssion [barcode] number to the drop down list in OPAC Search http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8302
I'll say right out that I'm opposed to these changes, but I want to bring it up here on the list so we can discuss.
I agree that the simple search should be simple. But we could probably spend a lot of time arguing about how simple is simple enough. Seems to me that it would be better to find a way to make this easily configurable. I'd like to suggest a simple solution: In the template, we could have <select id="masthead_search" class="left" name="idx"> [% OPACSearchOptions %] </select> Then we could have a syspref called OPACSearchOptions (or something), with this initial content: <option value="">Library catalog</option> <option value="ti">Title</option> <option value="au">Author</option> <option value="su">Subject</option> <option value="nb">ISBN</option> <option value="se">Series</option> <option value="callnum">Call number</option> This would keep current behaviour, but make it easy to add or remove or re-arrange the <option> elements. And we could explain in the docs or on the wiki how the "value"s here relate to indexes defined in more or less obscure config files. Yes, it would require fiddling with HTML and Zebra (or Solr) indexes to change it. No, it would not be GUI and pretty. But it would be so simple, even I could submit a patch for it. Thoughts? Best regards, Magnus libriotech.no
I like this idea :) It would also allow people to search on new indexes they might have defined in said obsure files. Some libraries have asked us for this in the past. Le lundi 08 octobre 2012 à 09:52 +0200, Magnus Enger a écrit :
On 18 September 2012 15:58, Owen Leonard <oleonard@myacpl.org> wrote:
We've now got two patches pending which seek to add more options to the default OPAC search, the masthead search bar which currently includes options for Library catalog, title, author, subject, ISBN, series, and call number:
Add "Phrase" Searching to OPAC Search http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8778
Add accesssion [barcode] number to the drop down list in OPAC Search http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8302
I'll say right out that I'm opposed to these changes, but I want to bring it up here on the list so we can discuss.
I agree that the simple search should be simple. But we could probably spend a lot of time arguing about how simple is simple enough.
Seems to me that it would be better to find a way to make this easily configurable. I'd like to suggest a simple solution:
In the template, we could have
<select id="masthead_search" class="left" name="idx"> [% OPACSearchOptions %] </select>
Then we could have a syspref called OPACSearchOptions (or something), with this initial content:
<option value="">Library catalog</option> <option value="ti">Title</option> <option value="au">Author</option> <option value="su">Subject</option> <option value="nb">ISBN</option> <option value="se">Series</option> <option value="callnum">Call number</option>
This would keep current behaviour, but make it easy to add or remove or re-arrange the <option> elements. And we could explain in the docs or on the wiki how the "value"s here relate to indexes defined in more or less obscure config files.
Yes, it would require fiddling with HTML and Zebra (or Solr) indexes to change it. No, it would not be GUI and pretty. But it would be so simple, even I could submit a patch for it.
Thoughts?
Best regards, Magnus libriotech.no _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
-- Gaetan Boisson Chef de projet bibliothécaire BibLibre 06 52 42 51 29 108 avenue Breteuil 13006 Marseille gaetan.boisson@biblibre.com
I agree, this seems like a good option. The only thing I could imagine that would make it better would be to add a new section under administration to define these choices so we don't require librarians to be messing around with html. Perhaps I'm trying to make it overly complicated though ; ) Kyle http://www.kylehall.info ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com ) Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org ) Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org ) Mill Run Technology Solutions ( http://millruntech.com ) On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Magnus Enger <magnus@enger.priv.no> wrote:
On 18 September 2012 15:58, Owen Leonard <oleonard@myacpl.org> wrote:
We've now got two patches pending which seek to add more options to the default OPAC search, the masthead search bar which currently includes options for Library catalog, title, author, subject, ISBN, series, and call number:
Add "Phrase" Searching to OPAC Search http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8778
Add accesssion [barcode] number to the drop down list in OPAC Search http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8302
I'll say right out that I'm opposed to these changes, but I want to bring it up here on the list so we can discuss.
I agree that the simple search should be simple. But we could probably spend a lot of time arguing about how simple is simple enough.
Seems to me that it would be better to find a way to make this easily configurable. I'd like to suggest a simple solution:
In the template, we could have
<select id="masthead_search" class="left" name="idx"> [% OPACSearchOptions %] </select>
Then we could have a syspref called OPACSearchOptions (or something), with this initial content:
<option value="">Library catalog</option> <option value="ti">Title</option> <option value="au">Author</option> <option value="su">Subject</option> <option value="nb">ISBN</option> <option value="se">Series</option> <option value="callnum">Call number</option>
This would keep current behaviour, but make it easy to add or remove or re-arrange the <option> elements. And we could explain in the docs or on the wiki how the "value"s here relate to indexes defined in more or less obscure config files.
Yes, it would require fiddling with HTML and Zebra (or Solr) indexes to change it. No, it would not be GUI and pretty. But it would be so simple, even I could submit a patch for it.
Thoughts?
Best regards, Magnus libriotech.no _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
Hi all, I am sorry, but there is a big problem with that solution as suggested. The search options won't be translatable and only available in one language at a time. I think what we really need is a way to have all the HTML system preferences in an editor like we have for news that supports content for multiple languages. Katrin
-----Original Message----- From: koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:koha-devel- bounces@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Hall Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 1:38 PM To: Magnus Enger Cc: koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Default search options in the OPAC
I agree, this seems like a good option. The only thing I could imagine that would make it better would be to add a new section under administration to define these choices so we don't require librarians to be messing around with html. Perhaps I'm trying to make it overly complicated though ; )
Kyle
http://www.kylehall.info ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com ) Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org ) Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org ) Mill Run Technology Solutions ( http://millruntech.com )
On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Magnus Enger <magnus@enger.priv.no> wrote:
On 18 September 2012 15:58, Owen Leonard <oleonard@myacpl.org> wrote:
We've now got two patches pending which seek to add more options to the default OPAC search, the masthead search bar which currently includes options for Library catalog, title, author, subject, ISBN, series, and call number:
Add "Phrase" Searching to OPAC Search http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8778
Add accesssion [barcode] number to the drop down list in OPAC Search http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8302
I'll say right out that I'm opposed to these changes, but I want to bring it up here on the list so we can discuss.
I agree that the simple search should be simple. But we could probably spend a lot of time arguing about how simple is simple enough.
Seems to me that it would be better to find a way to make this easily configurable. I'd like to suggest a simple solution:
In the template, we could have
<select id="masthead_search" class="left" name="idx"> [% OPACSearchOptions %] </select>
Then we could have a syspref called OPACSearchOptions (or something), with this initial content:
<option value="">Library catalog</option> <option value="ti">Title</option> <option value="au">Author</option> <option value="su">Subject</option> <option value="nb">ISBN</option> <option value="se">Series</option> <option value="callnum">Call number</option>
This would keep current behaviour, but make it easy to add or remove or re-arrange the <option> elements. And we could explain in the docs or on the wiki how the "value"s here relate to indexes defined in more or less obscure config files.
Yes, it would require fiddling with HTML and Zebra (or Solr) indexes to change it. No, it would not be GUI and pretty. But it would be so simple, even I could submit a patch for it.
Thoughts?
Best regards, Magnus libriotech.no _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha- community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
Hi all,
I am sorry, but there is a big problem with that solution as suggested. The search options won't be translatable and only available in one language at a time. I think what we really need is a way to have all the HTML system
Hi all, I agree with Katrin that we should have the possibility to localize the HTML system preferences. Marc Am 08.10.2012 13:42, schrieb Fischer, Katrin: preferences in an editor like we have for news that supports content for multiple languages.
Katrin
-----Original Message----- From: koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:koha-devel- bounces@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Hall Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 1:38 PM To: Magnus Enger Cc: koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Default search options in the OPAC
I agree, this seems like a good option. The only thing I could imagine that would make it better would be to add a new section under administration to define these choices so we don't require librarians to be messing around with html. Perhaps I'm trying to make it overly complicated though ; )
Kyle
http://www.kylehall.info ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com ) Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org ) Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org ) Mill Run Technology Solutions ( http://millruntech.com )
On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Magnus Enger <magnus@enger.priv.no> wrote:
On 18 September 2012 15:58, Owen Leonard <oleonard@myacpl.org> wrote:
We've now got two patches pending which seek to add more options to the default OPAC search, the masthead search bar which currently includes options for Library catalog, title, author, subject, ISBN, series, and call number:
Add "Phrase" Searching to OPAC Search http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8778
Add accesssion [barcode] number to the drop down list in OPAC Search http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8302
I'll say right out that I'm opposed to these changes, but I want to bring it up here on the list so we can discuss.
I agree that the simple search should be simple. But we could probably spend a lot of time arguing about how simple is simple enough.
Seems to me that it would be better to find a way to make this easily configurable. I'd like to suggest a simple solution:
In the template, we could have
<select id="masthead_search" class="left" name="idx"> [% OPACSearchOptions %] </select>
Then we could have a syspref called OPACSearchOptions (or something), with this initial content:
<option value="">Library catalog</option> <option value="ti">Title</option> <option value="au">Author</option> <option value="su">Subject</option> <option value="nb">ISBN</option> <option value="se">Series</option> <option value="callnum">Call number</option>
This would keep current behaviour, but make it easy to add or remove or re-arrange the <option> elements. And we could explain in the docs or on the wiki how the "value"s here relate to indexes defined in more or less obscure config files.
Yes, it would require fiddling with HTML and Zebra (or Solr) indexes to change it. No, it would not be GUI and pretty. But it would be so simple, even I could submit a patch for it.
Thoughts?
Best regards, Magnus libriotech.no _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha- community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
On 8 October 2012 15:07, Marc Véron <veron@veron.ch> wrote:
Hi all,
I agree with Katrin that we should have the possibility to localize the HTML system preferences.
Okay, slightly more crazy proposal. In the template (note the | eval): <select id="masthead_search" class="left" name="idx"> [% OPACSearchOptions | eval %] </select> And then in OPACSearchOptions (or something): [% IF ( OPACLanguage == 'nb-NO' ) %] [%# Don't remember if there is a variable for this, or if it would have to be added%] <option value="">Katalogen</option> <option value="ti">Tittel</option> <option value="au">Forfatter</option> <option value="su">Emne</option> <option value="nb">ISBN</option> <option value="se">Serie</option> <option value="callnum">Hyllesignatur</option> [% ELSE %] <option value="">Library catalog</option> <option value="ti">Title</option> <option value="au">Author</option> <option value="su">Subject</option> <option value="nb">ISBN</option> <option value="se">Series</option> <option value="callnum">Call number</option> [% END %] Please feel free to shoot this down - I have no idea how it would affect performance etc. :-) Best regards, Magnus libriotech.no
On 8 October 2012 13:42, Fischer, Katrin <Katrin.Fischer@bsz-bw.de> wrote:
I am sorry, but there is a big problem with that solution as suggested. The search options won't be translatable and only available in one language at a time. I think what we really need is a way to have all the HTML system preferences in an editor like we have for news that supports content for multiple languages.
Gah, I agree of course. Too simple to be true... Best regards, Magnus libriotech.no
participants (8)
-
BWS Johnson -
Fischer, Katrin -
Gaetan Boisson -
Galen Charlton -
Kyle Hall -
Magnus Enger -
Marc Véron -
Owen Leonard