Re: [Koha-devel] Architectural goals for 3.16
At 09:59 AM 12/11/2013 +1300, Liz Rea wrote:
On 11/12/13 05:40, Owen Leonard wrote:
[4] Upgrade the version of Bootstrap we use to 3.x. As I mentioned in IRC today the primary caveat for this goal is that Bootstrap 3 says it "drops support for Internet Explorer 7 and Firefox 3.6." However, it doesn't explicitly say what "dropping support" means. If it means broken functionality, that is a problem for us. If it means graceful degradation, that's more acceptable. I'll be doing some investigation, but I think we need some opinions from others about what level of support we need to offer for IE7 and FF 3.6.
-- Owen
(this is only my opinion, since you asked.)
Mine too (and we're "small" so maybe near the bottom end of the relevancy scale.)
IE 7 is only available in Windows XP, which is due to be end of life in April 2014.
First, I really have no opinion on IE 7 thru 10 -- I do read the stats on "market share", and I do have access (for webpage verification purposes) of IE8, but that's it...
Any changes we make for this cycle won't be released until after XP is EOL. [snip] XP is an outdated, and dangerous operating system to be running.
We're all entitled to our opinions and I respect yours. However XPPro SP2,[1] properly set up (with a *user* account, never go on-line with admin privileges) is not "dangerous." EOL, maybe, but I feel that Koha is gaining ground in (excuse me if I'm not PC) less developed countries where quite frankly older o/s abound for whatever reasons. Upgrading Koha to deny XP (and I'm not at all sure that's what's being proposed) might be cutting off our noses to spite our face.
It should be noted that it was discovered that bootstrap 3 sites, though not officially supported in FF 3.6, still seem to look and work OK.
For the record, I still have (no time to rebuild) half a dozen "kiosks" that run FF3.6 under Win98SE (despite a whole bunch of misinformation that it's not possible) -- the Koha OPAC is visually perfect (3.8.5 near standard OPAC CSS) and very fast. YMMV. Bottom line: bootstrap 3 is probably the right way to go, and sooner rather than later ... but let's not forget that there are probably hundreds of thousands, if not potentially millions, of KohaOPAC users who are not as "up to date" with their boxes as we might be... Best regards, Paul [1] I have two boxes running XPPro, installed 2001, upgraded SP2 2004 (both running IE8 since 2009). They have never, ever failed in 12 years -- "bullet-proof" is a term that comes to mind. Note that I have never used Vista, Win7 or Win8.
Hi Do you know what is the share of FF 3.6 and IE 7 in Nigeria, Philippines, Pakistan or Turkey? I suppose that people in those countries probably can't afford to change computers as soon as here... By the way, my university is still using Windows XP, so it is not "dangerous" (but of course we plan to change OS in 2014) And 1 year ago, the FF standard version insalled on staff computers was 3.6! (Now it is 10 or 17, I don't remember) From what I understood (that's not my part ;-) ), using fresher version of FF was not an easy task for our IT department, because FF was virtualized, and the older versions are somehow "lighter" than the recent ones. Mathieu Le 11/12/2013 02:56, Paul A a écrit :
At 09:59 AM 12/11/2013 +1300, Liz Rea wrote:
On 11/12/13 05:40, Owen Leonard wrote:
[4] Upgrade the version of Bootstrap we use to 3.x. As I mentioned in IRC today the primary caveat for this goal is that Bootstrap 3 says it "drops support for Internet Explorer 7 and Firefox 3.6." However, it doesn't explicitly say what "dropping support" means. If it means broken functionality, that is a problem for us. If it means graceful degradation, that's more acceptable. I'll be doing some investigation, but I think we need some opinions from others about what level of support we need to offer for IE7 and FF 3.6.
-- Owen
(this is only my opinion, since you asked.)
Mine too (and we're "small" so maybe near the bottom end of the relevancy scale.)
IE 7 is only available in Windows XP, which is due to be end of life in April 2014.
First, I really have no opinion on IE 7 thru 10 -- I do read the stats on "market share", and I do have access (for webpage verification purposes) of IE8, but that's it...
Any changes we make for this cycle won't be released until after XP is EOL. [snip] XP is an outdated, and dangerous operating system to be running.
We're all entitled to our opinions and I respect yours. However XPPro SP2,[1] properly set up (with a *user* account, never go on-line with admin privileges) is not "dangerous." EOL, maybe, but I feel that Koha is gaining ground in (excuse me if I'm not PC) less developed countries where quite frankly older o/s abound for whatever reasons.
Upgrading Koha to deny XP (and I'm not at all sure that's what's being proposed) might be cutting off our noses to spite our face.
It should be noted that it was discovered that bootstrap 3 sites, though not officially supported in FF 3.6, still seem to look and work OK.
For the record, I still have (no time to rebuild) half a dozen "kiosks" that run FF3.6 under Win98SE (despite a whole bunch of misinformation that it's not possible) -- the Koha OPAC is visually perfect (3.8.5 near standard OPAC CSS) and very fast. YMMV.
Bottom line: bootstrap 3 is probably the right way to go, and sooner rather than later ... but let's not forget that there are probably hundreds of thousands, if not potentially millions, of KohaOPAC users who are not as "up to date" with their boxes as we might be...
Best regards, Paul [1] I have two boxes running XPPro, installed 2001, upgraded SP2 2004 (both running IE8 since 2009). They have never, ever failed in 12 years -- "bullet-proof" is a term that comes to mind. Note that I have never used Vista, Win7 or Win8.
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
-- Mathieu Saby Service d'Informatique Documentaire Service Commun de Documentation Université Rennes 2 Téléphone : 02 99 14 12 65 Courriel : mathieu.saby@univ-rennes2.fr
* Mathieu Saby (mathieu.saby@univ-rennes2.fr) wrote:
Hi Do you know what is the share of FF 3.6 and IE 7 in Nigeria, Philippines, Pakistan or Turkey? I suppose that people in those countries probably can't afford to change computers as soon as here...
By the way, my university is still using Windows XP, so it is not "dangerous" (but of course we plan to change OS in 2014) And 1 year ago, the FF standard version insalled on staff computers was 3.6! (Now it is 10 or 17, I don't remember) From what I understood (that's not my part ;-) ), using fresher version of FF was not an easy task for our IT department, because FF was virtualized, and the older versions are somehow "lighter" than the recent ones.
You're right, lets give it another 7 years before we upgrade (october 2006 it was released). Chris PS I wrote this using ae on my machine running linux 1.0.
Mathieu
Le 11/12/2013 02:56, Paul A a écrit :
At 09:59 AM 12/11/2013 +1300, Liz Rea wrote:
On 11/12/13 05:40, Owen Leonard wrote:
[4] Upgrade the version of Bootstrap we use to 3.x. As I mentioned in IRC today the primary caveat for this goal is that Bootstrap 3 says it "drops support for Internet Explorer 7 and Firefox 3.6." However, it doesn't explicitly say what "dropping support" means. If it means broken functionality, that is a problem for us. If it means graceful degradation, that's more acceptable. I'll be doing some investigation, but I think we need some opinions from others about what level of support we need to offer for IE7 and FF 3.6.
-- Owen
(this is only my opinion, since you asked.)
Mine too (and we're "small" so maybe near the bottom end of the relevancy scale.)
IE 7 is only available in Windows XP, which is due to be end of life in April 2014.
First, I really have no opinion on IE 7 thru 10 -- I do read the stats on "market share", and I do have access (for webpage verification purposes) of IE8, but that's it...
Any changes we make for this cycle won't be released until after XP is EOL. [snip] XP is an outdated, and dangerous operating system to be running.
We're all entitled to our opinions and I respect yours. However XPPro SP2,[1] properly set up (with a *user* account, never go on-line with admin privileges) is not "dangerous." EOL, maybe, but I feel that Koha is gaining ground in (excuse me if I'm not PC) less developed countries where quite frankly older o/s abound for whatever reasons.
Upgrading Koha to deny XP (and I'm not at all sure that's what's being proposed) might be cutting off our noses to spite our face.
It should be noted that it was discovered that bootstrap 3 sites, though not officially supported in FF 3.6, still seem to look and work OK.
For the record, I still have (no time to rebuild) half a dozen "kiosks" that run FF3.6 under Win98SE (despite a whole bunch of misinformation that it's not possible) -- the Koha OPAC is visually perfect (3.8.5 near standard OPAC CSS) and very fast. YMMV.
Bottom line: bootstrap 3 is probably the right way to go, and sooner rather than later ... but let's not forget that there are probably hundreds of thousands, if not potentially millions, of KohaOPAC users who are not as "up to date" with their boxes as we might be...
Best regards, Paul [1] I have two boxes running XPPro, installed 2001, upgraded SP2 2004 (both running IE8 since 2009). They have never, ever failed in 12 years -- "bullet-proof" is a term that comes to mind. Note that I have never used Vista, Win7 or Win8.
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
-- Mathieu Saby Service d'Informatique Documentaire Service Commun de Documentation Université Rennes 2 Téléphone : 02 99 14 12 65 Courriel : mathieu.saby@univ-rennes2.fr
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
-- Chris Cormack Catalyst IT Ltd. +64 4 803 2238 PO Box 11-053, Manners St, Wellington 6142, New Zealand
I was just asking questions... Some answers are here http://gs.statcounter.com/ France: Firefox 2.0 0.02 Firefox 3.0 0.06 Firefox 3.5 0.05 Firefox 3.6 0.28 IE 6.0 0.13 IE 7.0 0.94 => total = 1.48% last month Philippines: Firefox 2.0 0.01 Firefox 3.0 0.05 Firefox 3.5 0.05 Firefox 3.6 0.62 IE 6.0 0.12 IE 7.0 0.72 => total = 1.57% last month. Nigeria: Firefox 2.0 0.07 Firefox 3.0 0.81 Firefox 3.5 0.14 Firefox 3.6 1.02 IE 6.0 0.12 IE 7.0 0.2 => total = 2.18% last month Afghanistan Firefox 2.0 0.04 Firefox 3.0 0.2 Firefox 3.1 0.01 Firefox 3.5 0.22 Firefox 3.6 0.51 IE 6.0 0.1 IE 7.0 0.28 => total = 1.28% last month Algeria: IE 6.0 0.2 IE 7.0 0.39 Firefox 2.0 0.07 Firefox 3.0 1.01 Firefox 3.5 0.31 Firefox 3.6 1.47 => total = 3.27% last month And these figures will be even lower in 6 monthes So If the data are correct, I suppose you are right, and support for those browsers could be safley dropped. Mathieu Le 11/12/2013 11:33, Chris Cormack a écrit :
* Mathieu Saby (mathieu.saby@univ-rennes2.fr) wrote:
Hi Do you know what is the share of FF 3.6 and IE 7 in Nigeria, Philippines, Pakistan or Turkey? I suppose that people in those countries probably can't afford to change computers as soon as here...
By the way, my university is still using Windows XP, so it is not "dangerous" (but of course we plan to change OS in 2014) And 1 year ago, the FF standard version insalled on staff computers was 3.6! (Now it is 10 or 17, I don't remember) From what I understood (that's not my part ;-) ), using fresher version of FF was not an easy task for our IT department, because FF was virtualized, and the older versions are somehow "lighter" than the recent ones.
You're right, lets give it another 7 years before we upgrade (october 2006 it was released).
Chris
PS I wrote this using ae on my machine running linux 1.0.
Mathieu
Le 11/12/2013 02:56, Paul A a écrit :
At 09:59 AM 12/11/2013 +1300, Liz Rea wrote:
On 11/12/13 05:40, Owen Leonard wrote:
[4] Upgrade the version of Bootstrap we use to 3.x. As I mentioned in IRC today the primary caveat for this goal is that Bootstrap 3 says it "drops support for Internet Explorer 7 and Firefox 3.6." However, it doesn't explicitly say what "dropping support" means. If it means broken functionality, that is a problem for us. If it means graceful degradation, that's more acceptable. I'll be doing some investigation, but I think we need some opinions from others about what level of support we need to offer for IE7 and FF 3.6.
-- Owen
(this is only my opinion, since you asked.) Mine too (and we're "small" so maybe near the bottom end of the relevancy scale.)
IE 7 is only available in Windows XP, which is due to be end of life in April 2014. First, I really have no opinion on IE 7 thru 10 -- I do read the stats on "market share", and I do have access (for webpage verification purposes) of IE8, but that's it...
Any changes we make for this cycle won't be released until after XP is EOL. [snip] XP is an outdated, and dangerous operating system to be running. We're all entitled to our opinions and I respect yours. However XPPro SP2,[1] properly set up (with a *user* account, never go on-line with admin privileges) is not "dangerous." EOL, maybe, but I feel that Koha is gaining ground in (excuse me if I'm not PC) less developed countries where quite frankly older o/s abound for whatever reasons.
Upgrading Koha to deny XP (and I'm not at all sure that's what's being proposed) might be cutting off our noses to spite our face.
It should be noted that it was discovered that bootstrap 3 sites, though not officially supported in FF 3.6, still seem to look and work OK. For the record, I still have (no time to rebuild) half a dozen "kiosks" that run FF3.6 under Win98SE (despite a whole bunch of misinformation that it's not possible) -- the Koha OPAC is visually perfect (3.8.5 near standard OPAC CSS) and very fast. YMMV.
Bottom line: bootstrap 3 is probably the right way to go, and sooner rather than later ... but let's not forget that there are probably hundreds of thousands, if not potentially millions, of KohaOPAC users who are not as "up to date" with their boxes as we might be...
Best regards, Paul [1] I have two boxes running XPPro, installed 2001, upgraded SP2 2004 (both running IE8 since 2009). They have never, ever failed in 12 years -- "bullet-proof" is a term that comes to mind. Note that I have never used Vista, Win7 or Win8.
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
-- Mathieu Saby Service d'Informatique Documentaire Service Commun de Documentation Université Rennes 2 Téléphone : 02 99 14 12 65 Courriel : mathieu.saby@univ-rennes2.fr
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
-- Mathieu Saby Service d'Informatique Documentaire Service Commun de Documentation Université Rennes 2 Téléphone : 02 99 14 12 65 Courriel : mathieu.saby@univ-rennes2.fr
On the ElasticSearch front, is there an RFC somewhere with some really clear technical goals for the development stating what problems it hopes to solve and how..? I'de like to see these so the project gets as much support as possible as I'de love to see it flourish to completion. I'm wondering if zebra should always continue for z3950/SRU as it's good at that, and we should never intend on using ElasticSearch (which is much more about keyword searching) for it? Either way, I want to add my thanks for Brendan and Chris for getting this move going.. if I can help at all with any of it give me a shout.. Martin Renvoize Software Engineer, PTFS Europe Ltd Content Management and Library Solutions Skype: Landline: 0203 286 8685 Mobile: 07725985636 http://www.ptfs-europe.com On 11 December 2013 11:27, Mathieu Saby <mathieu.saby@univ-rennes2.fr>wrote:
I was just asking questions... Some answers are here http://gs.statcounter.com/
France: Firefox 2.0 0.02 Firefox 3.0 0.06 Firefox 3.5 0.05 Firefox 3.6 0.28 IE 6.0 0.13 IE 7.0 0.94 => total = 1.48% last month
Philippines: Firefox 2.0 0.01 Firefox 3.0 0.05 Firefox 3.5 0.05 Firefox 3.6 0.62 IE 6.0 0.12 IE 7.0 0.72 => total = 1.57% last month.
Nigeria: Firefox 2.0 0.07 Firefox 3.0 0.81 Firefox 3.5 0.14 Firefox 3.6 1.02 IE 6.0 0.12 IE 7.0 0.2 => total = 2.18% last month
Afghanistan Firefox 2.0 0.04 Firefox 3.0 0.2 Firefox 3.1 0.01 Firefox 3.5 0.22 Firefox 3.6 0.51 IE 6.0 0.1 IE 7.0 0.28 => total = 1.28% last month
Algeria: IE 6.0 0.2 IE 7.0 0.39 Firefox 2.0 0.07 Firefox 3.0 1.01 Firefox 3.5 0.31 Firefox 3.6 1.47 => total = 3.27% last month
And these figures will be even lower in 6 monthes So If the data are correct, I suppose you are right, and support for those browsers could be safley dropped.
Mathieu
Le 11/12/2013 11:33, Chris Cormack a écrit :
* Mathieu Saby (mathieu.saby@univ-rennes2.fr) wrote:
Hi Do you know what is the share of FF 3.6 and IE 7 in Nigeria, Philippines, Pakistan or Turkey? I suppose that people in those countries probably can't afford to change computers as soon as here...
By the way, my university is still using Windows XP, so it is not "dangerous" (but of course we plan to change OS in 2014) And 1 year ago, the FF standard version insalled on staff computers was 3.6! (Now it is 10 or 17, I don't remember) From what I understood (that's not my part ;-) ), using fresher version of FF was not an easy task for our IT department, because FF was virtualized, and the older versions are somehow "lighter" than the recent ones.
You're right, lets give it another 7 years before we upgrade (october 2006 it was released).
Chris
PS I wrote this using ae on my machine running linux 1.0.
Mathieu
Le 11/12/2013 02:56, Paul A a écrit :
At 09:59 AM 12/11/2013 +1300, Liz Rea wrote:
On 11/12/13 05:40, Owen Leonard wrote:
[4] Upgrade the version of Bootstrap we use to 3.x.
As I mentioned in IRC today the primary caveat for this goal is that Bootstrap 3 says it "drops support for Internet Explorer 7 and Firefox 3.6." However, it doesn't explicitly say what "dropping support" means. If it means broken functionality, that is a problem for us. If it means graceful degradation, that's more acceptable. I'll be doing some investigation, but I think we need some opinions from others about what level of support we need to offer for IE7 and FF 3.6.
-- Owen
(this is only my opinion, since you asked.)
Mine too (and we're "small" so maybe near the bottom end of the relevancy scale.)
IE 7 is only available in Windows XP, which is due to be end of life in April 2014.
First, I really have no opinion on IE 7 thru 10 -- I do read the stats on "market share", and I do have access (for webpage verification purposes) of IE8, but that's it...
Any changes we make for this cycle won't be released until after XP is EOL. [snip] XP is an outdated, and dangerous operating system to be running.
We're all entitled to our opinions and I respect yours. However XPPro SP2,[1] properly set up (with a *user* account, never go on-line with admin privileges) is not "dangerous." EOL, maybe, but I feel that Koha is gaining ground in (excuse me if I'm not PC) less developed countries where quite frankly older o/s abound for whatever reasons.
Upgrading Koha to deny XP (and I'm not at all sure that's what's being proposed) might be cutting off our noses to spite our face.
It should be noted that it was discovered that bootstrap 3 sites, though not officially supported in FF 3.6, still seem to look and work OK.
For the record, I still have (no time to rebuild) half a dozen "kiosks" that run FF3.6 under Win98SE (despite a whole bunch of misinformation that it's not possible) -- the Koha OPAC is visually perfect (3.8.5 near standard OPAC CSS) and very fast. YMMV.
Bottom line: bootstrap 3 is probably the right way to go, and sooner rather than later ... but let's not forget that there are probably hundreds of thousands, if not potentially millions, of KohaOPAC users who are not as "up to date" with their boxes as we might be...
Best regards, Paul [1] I have two boxes running XPPro, installed 2001, upgraded SP2 2004 (both running IE8 since 2009). They have never, ever failed in 12 years -- "bullet-proof" is a term that comes to mind. Note that I have never used Vista, Win7 or Win8.
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing listKoha-devel@lists.koha-community.orghttp://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
-- Mathieu Saby Service d'Informatique Documentaire Service Commun de Documentation Université Rennes 2 Téléphone : 02 99 14 12 65 Courriel : mathieu.saby@univ-rennes2.fr
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing listKoha-devel@lists.koha-community.orghttp://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
-- Mathieu Saby Service d'Informatique Documentaire Service Commun de Documentation Université Rennes 2 Téléphone : 02 99 14 12 65 Courriel : mathieu.saby@univ-rennes2.fr
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
At 11:33 PM 12/11/2013 +1300, Chris Cormack wrote:
* Mathieu Saby (mathieu.saby@univ-rennes2.fr) wrote:
Hi Do you know what is the share of FF 3.6 and IE 7 in Nigeria, Philippines, Pakistan or Turkey? I suppose that people in those countries probably can't afford to change computers as soon as here...
By the way, my university is still using Windows XP, so it is not "dangerous" (but of course we plan to change OS in 2014) And 1 year ago, the FF standard version insalled on staff computers was 3.6! (Now it is 10 or 17, I don't remember) From what I understood (that's not my part ;-) ), using fresher version of FF was not an easy task for our IT department, because FF was virtualized, and the older versions are somehow "lighter" than the recent ones.
You're right, lets give it another 7 years before we upgrade (october 2006 it was released).
Hi Chris -- let's not go overboard, I think that Mathieu was just thinking along the same lines that I attempted to express. That is, that while many of us are {inquisitive|priveleged|advanced|funded|?} enough to try and follow future trends, coding, methodology, and that our intentions are purely to improve the "Koha experience", the aim of Koha is to make library catalogues available to as many end-users as possible, "education of the world's ordinary citizens" if you will. The "cutting edge" is fine, but is not necessarily available to "the masses." (and that doesn't mean that IE6 is at all relevant!) The other (in my mind anyway) point that I fear we are overlooking, is that this "browser" discussion started with Bootstrap v3 -- and all of this is just an expanded CSS usage for cosmetic purposes - rounded corners on boxes, etc, - but might be more relevant to mobile usage. When I do a CSS "check"[1] on our OPAC, I find "Sorry! We found the following errors (289)" and they're {mostly} .yui related, and they don't appear to make diddly difference in any browser I have access to (FF3.6, FF21, FF25, IE8, Chrome16, Safari5.1, Opera11). Does anyone know of anything that would actually break the OPAC or otherwise render it unusable or unsafe in *any* browser if Bootstrap 3 were introduced? tnx + br - paul [1] <http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css21&warning=0&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fopac.navalmarinearchive.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fkoha%2Fopac-main.pl>
Chris PS I wrote this using ae on my machine running linux 1.0.
P.S. I still have a fully functional Seaqua (two! 5 1/4 floppies, one for the o/s, one for data) that runs MS-DOS 1.03) but it only has 64K RAM, so couldn't run Windows when BG/MS introduced it in 1984 -- and when I built our current production server last year (8 x i7 cores) it was "top end" but is now surpassed ;={
Mathieu
Le 11/12/2013 02:56, Paul A a écrit :
At 09:59 AM 12/11/2013 +1300, Liz Rea wrote:
On 11/12/13 05:40, Owen Leonard wrote:
[4] Upgrade the version of Bootstrap we use to 3.x. As I mentioned in IRC today the primary caveat for this goal is that Bootstrap 3 says it "drops support for Internet Explorer 7 and Firefox 3.6." However, it doesn't explicitly say what "dropping support" means. If it means broken functionality, that is a problem for us. If it means graceful degradation, that's more acceptable. I'll be doing some investigation, but I think we need some opinions from others about what level of support we need to offer for IE7 and FF 3.6.
-- Owen
(this is only my opinion, since you asked.)
Mine too (and we're "small" so maybe near the bottom end of the relevancy scale.)
IE 7 is only available in Windows XP, which is due to be end of life in April 2014.
First, I really have no opinion on IE 7 thru 10 -- I do read the stats on "market share", and I do have access (for webpage verification purposes) of IE8, but that's it...
Any changes we make for this cycle won't be released until after XP is EOL. [snip] XP is an outdated, and dangerous operating system to be running.
We're all entitled to our opinions and I respect yours. However XPPro SP2,[1] properly set up (with a *user* account, never go on-line with admin privileges) is not "dangerous." EOL, maybe, but I feel that Koha is gaining ground in (excuse me if I'm not PC) less developed countries where quite frankly older o/s abound for whatever reasons.
Upgrading Koha to deny XP (and I'm not at all sure that's what's being proposed) might be cutting off our noses to spite our face.
It should be noted that it was discovered that bootstrap 3 sites, though not officially supported in FF 3.6, still seem to look and work OK.
For the record, I still have (no time to rebuild) half a dozen "kiosks" that run FF3.6 under Win98SE (despite a whole bunch of misinformation that it's not possible) -- the Koha OPAC is visually perfect (3.8.5 near standard OPAC CSS) and very fast. YMMV.
Bottom line: bootstrap 3 is probably the right way to go, and sooner rather than later ... but let's not forget that there are probably hundreds of thousands, if not potentially millions, of KohaOPAC users who are not as "up to date" with their boxes as we might be...
Best regards, Paul [1] I have two boxes running XPPro, installed 2001, upgraded SP2 2004 (both running IE8 since 2009). They have never, ever failed in 12 years -- "bullet-proof" is a term that comes to mind. Note that I have never used Vista, Win7 or Win8.
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
-- Mathieu Saby Service d'Informatique Documentaire Service Commun de Documentation Université Rennes 2 Téléphone : 02 99 14 12 65 Courriel : mathieu.saby@univ-rennes2.fr
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
-- Chris Cormack Catalyst IT Ltd. +64 4 803 2238 PO Box 11-053, Manners St, Wellington 6142, New Zealand
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
Paul A schreef op wo 11-12-2013 om 13:25 [-0500]:
The other (in my mind anyway) point that I fear we are overlooking, is that this "browser" discussion started with Bootstrap v3 -- and all of this is just an expanded CSS usage for cosmetic purposes - rounded corners on boxes, etc, - but might be more relevant to mobile usage.
Mobile internet use is huge. One of the major sites in NZ has gone from 5% mobile use to 50-something% in the past ~5 years. It's even more in some other countries, for example: "In Rural India, 70% of the active internet users also access internet using mobile phones, while 32% use internet only through mobile."[0] This suggests that we're reaching a point where the focus must be at least equal between desktop and mobile, possibly erring more toward mobile. Bootstrap isn't about "expanded CSS usage for cosmetic purposes", it's something that allows us to serve the majority of our users. To be honest, if we stop supporting the 0.2-0.3% on IE7 in exchange for providing access to 30% more on mobile, that's a definite win. [0] http://yourstory.com/2013/11/200-million-internet-users-in-india-now/ -- Robin Sheat Catalyst IT Ltd. ✆ +64 4 803 2204 GPG: 5FA7 4B49 1E4D CAA4 4C38 8505 77F5 B724 F871 3BDF
participants (5)
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Chris Cormack -
Martin Renvoize -
Mathieu Saby -
Paul A -
Robin Sheat