Hi, This email is to request to be listed on koha-community.org as a Koha Support provider. Company Name: leals.com Contact Person: David Díaz Contact email: david@leals.com Website: www.leals.com Telephone: +34 922 37 18 42 Address: Iriarte, 12, 38400 Puerto de la Cruz, S/C de Tenerife, Spain Short description of your services: PBX, Koha ILS, e-commerce, e-learning, ERP, CRM, and generic development, consulting and sysadmin services. leals.com is a business democratically managed by its workers. Actual democracy, not a corrupted one ;-) All our-coop activities are completely transparent to all the cooperative workers. We do not create fake excuses ;-) Flat structure, without any manager or main administrator. Any worker can carry out any task type ;-) ... See http://www.leals.com/partners P.S.: I am sending this email here because the one I sent three days ago to koha@lists.katipo.co.nz is not getting in. Please, let me know if this is not the right list to request to be added to the Koha support listing. Regards, -- David Díaz (davi) worker of www.leals.com, a business democratically managed by its workers. Webmaster, Debian Maintainer, Software Engineer. Available for hire through www.leals.com
davi@gnu.org wrote:
This email is to request to be listed on koha-community.org as a Koha Support provider.
Company Name: leals.com
I have some serious concerns about this being listed, including: * it does not even mention Koha on the site, let alone link back to koha-community.org (verified by search engine); * I believe the site lists "clients" who never hired this leals.com; * it is called a co-op in the listing request, but not on the site and isn't recognised as one by any other co-op AFAICT (this probably matters more to me than most people, as defending the co-operative identity is a big task); * the site appears not to meet the EC Directive on E-commerce 2000/31/EC, notably Article 5 General information to be provided and Article 6 (b) identifying the natural or legal person. (Of course, that last one is a problem if it's where the listing request says. Not a problem if it's really in west Texas like http://www.everythingamarillo.com/marketplace/businesses/leals-mexican-resta... says. ;-) ) Regards, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and LMS developer, statistician. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire for Koha work http://www.software.coop/products/koha
MJ Ray wrote:
davi@gnu.org wrote:
This email is to request to be listed on koha-community.org as a Koha Support provider.
Company Name: leals.com
I have some serious concerns about this being listed, including:
* it does not even mention Koha on the site, let alone link back to koha-community.org (verified by search engine);
* I believe the site lists "clients" who never hired this leals.com;
* it is called a co-op in the listing request, but not on the site and isn't recognised as one by any other co-op AFAICT (this probably matters more to me than most people, as defending the co-operative identity is a big task);
* the site appears not to meet the EC Directive on E-commerce 2000/31/EC, notably Article 5 General information to be provided and Article 6 (b) identifying the natural or legal person.
I see you have invested high effort to write your email, sending it at 1:59 night, as per your local time. My pain with you do not end! After you fired me from your software.coop cooperative, formerly known as our-coop. Do you fear another cooperative being created? Is not enough for you not pay me? You also want to block the addition of leals.com in the listing? Your evilness do not have end. And yes, we have worked for those clients, and yes we have been the one contracted to carry out those tasks, being directly or indirectly we are the ones who have _done_ the work. You have my resume. In most cases we have even worked in the client offices for years. I do not want do to this a thread discussion, because I already lost more than two years working in your business, formerly known as our-coop. I regret it. I regret even knowing you. You firing me after building your coop is evil evil, but you do not paying me knowing how hard, very very hard, I worked to do software.coop an actual business option is even evil evil evil. Well, all is evil. I think you are not an human, or you are head ill or something like that. I regret creating the logo for you cooperative, software.coop. I regret creating the first version of the business cards. I regret creating the new website layout and look. I regret creating your internal business organisation, and so on and so on. And of course I regret leaving my 'normal' job to join your joke coop. It was a joke at that time. Thanks for firing me from the formerly known as our-coop.
(Of course, that last one is a problem if it's where the listing request says. Not a problem if it's really in west Texas like http://www.everythingamarillo.com/marketplace/businesses/leals-mexican-rest aurant/ says. ;-) )
leals.com is not in west Texas. It is not my fault if other business as the one in Texas ( http://www.myleals.com/ ) do mistakes at adding its domain name. MJ stop your evilness. You will be happier. And I do not care if leals.com is not added to the Koha support provider listing. I prefer being away from you if it has to be so ;-) Also, I am not so much obfuscated with building-linking as you. Lower your energy :-) P.S.: Greetings to your wife, who looked a normal person. And be more happy please. -- David Díaz (davi) worker of www.leals.com, a business democratically managed by its workers. Webmaster, Debian Maintainer, Software Engineer. Available for hire through www.leals.com
davi@gnu.org wrote:
I see you have invested high effort to write your email, sending it at 1:59 night, as per your local time. My pain with you do not end! After you fired me from your software.coop cooperative, formerly known as our-coop.
No special effort. We started as a support co-op for Internet Service Providers, so some members have never worked 9-5, which is still useful because our current customers are in many timezones - as are Koha community online meetings! (3am local next month...) The objections still stand. I won't answer the inaccuracies in the previous message because they are off-topic here, and instead ask davi to resolve our dispute by replying to our direct emails, as requested. The reasons for objecting are independent of that dispute anyway. Hope that clarifies, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and LMS developer, statistician. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire for Koha work http://www.software.coop/products/koha
MJ is correct: www.leals.com/library, the page that appears to contain the most information about their ILS offerings (unless I'm missing a page... I didn't do a full review of the site), does not link to www.koha-community.org anywhere (as MJ already confirmed), nor does it even reference Koha. To quote: "We provide a full-featured ILS solution" There is also reference to EDIFACT integration (twice on the page), which is still awaiting integration into Koha (a fact to which MJ and I can both speak). This indicates to me that leals is not offering services on the community codebase, at least not exclusively. I'll leave MJ's other concerns to be addressed by those more knowledgeable than I, but facts above stand in my mind as blockers enough to listing. I would ask leals to remedy this by providing link backs to koha-community.org, as well as referencing the software directly on their page. Any clarification about the nature of exactly what codebase they're offering services upon would be appreciated. I remember a discussion some time ago about the requirements for listing, but I don't recall the resolution. Perhaps I'm being too restrictive; I have no objections to leals being listed if they do indeed provide Koha support, but from their website I have no idea if that's true or not. A single link and the word "Koha" would go a long way in that regard. Cheers, -Ian On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:25 AM, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:
davi@gnu.org wrote:
I see you have invested high effort to write your email, sending it at 1:59 night, as per your local time. My pain with you do not end! After you fired me from your software.coop cooperative, formerly known as our-coop.
No special effort. We started as a support co-op for Internet Service Providers, so some members have never worked 9-5, which is still useful because our current customers are in many timezones - as are Koha community online meetings! (3am local next month...)
The objections still stand. I won't answer the inaccuracies in the previous message because they are off-topic here, and instead ask davi to resolve our dispute by replying to our direct emails, as requested.
The reasons for objecting are independent of that dispute anyway.
Hope that clarifies, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and LMS developer, statistician. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire for Koha work http://www.software.coop/products/koha _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
-- Ian Walls Lead Development Specialist ByWater Solutions Phone # (888) 900-8944 http://bywatersolutions.com ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com Twitter: @sekjal
On Friday 08 July 2011 15:11:05 Ian Walls wrote:
MJ is correct: www.leals.com/library, the page that appears to contain the most information about their ILS offerings (unless I'm missing a page... I didn't do a full review of the site), does not link to www.koha-community.org anywhere (as MJ already confirmed), nor does it even reference Koha. To quote: "We provide a full-featured ILS solution"
There is also reference to EDIFACT integration (twice on the page), which is still awaiting integration into Koha (a fact to which MJ and I can both speak). This indicates to me that leals is not offering services on the community codebase, at least not exclusively.
The EDIFACT integration is the one I developed some months ago for one of the software.coop (MJ coop) customers. Software.coop got in partner with other company to integrate it upstream and did some marketing about it. It is not my fault if they have not integrated it yet.
I'll leave MJ's other concerns to be addressed by those more knowledgeable than I, but facts above stand in my mind as blockers enough to listing. I would ask leals to remedy this by providing link backs to koha-community.org, as well as referencing the software directly on their page. Any clarification about the nature of exactly what codebase they're offering services upon would be appreciated.
We offer services for the official upstream release, and of course for the software we have developed.
I remember a discussion some time ago about the requirements for listing, but I don't recall the resolution. Perhaps I'm being too restrictive; I have no objections to leals being listed if they do indeed provide Koha support, but from their website I have no idea if that's true or not. A single link and the word "Koha" would go a long way in that regard.
We will add the product name, Koha ILS, and the link to koha-community.org. I have to get a break now, but I will be back and fix the issues Ian name. I hope show results and report tomorrow. Best regards, -- David Díaz (davi) worker of www.leals.com, a business democratically managed by its workers. Webmaster, Debian Maintainer, Software Engineer. Available for hire through www.leals.com
Davi, Thanks for clarifying leals services offered on Koha, and your willingness to update the company site to reference Koha and link back to the community website. I really don't want to be an antagonist, but those small HTML edits go a long way for me personally (I love Koha and the community that has grown up around it). As for the integration of EDIFACT, that development partner you reference is my company, ByWater Solutions. I may have pounced too vigorously on this point because, frankly, I'm embarrassed that I haven't gotten further with the integration in the time I've had. I've been quite busy, and the changes to the Acquisitions module in 3.2+ make for a thick mental stew of conceptual rebasery. I in no way intent to point blame at anyone (other than myself) about the EDIFACT work not being integrated; though, if you've got it working on the current HEAD of Koha, I'd love to see any updates/modifications you needed to make to get it working. Cheers, -Ian On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:26 AM, <davi@gnu.org> wrote:
MJ is correct: www.leals.com/library, the page that appears to contain
On Friday 08 July 2011 15:11:05 Ian Walls wrote: the
most information about their ILS offerings (unless I'm missing a page... I didn't do a full review of the site), does not link to www.koha-community.org anywhere (as MJ already confirmed), nor does it even reference Koha. To quote: "We provide a full-featured ILS solution"
There is also reference to EDIFACT integration (twice on the page), which is still awaiting integration into Koha (a fact to which MJ and I can both speak). This indicates to me that leals is not offering services on the community codebase, at least not exclusively.
The EDIFACT integration is the one I developed some months ago for one of the software.coop (MJ coop) customers. Software.coop got in partner with other company to integrate it upstream and did some marketing about it.
It is not my fault if they have not integrated it yet.
I'll leave MJ's other concerns to be addressed by those more knowledgeable than I, but facts above stand in my mind as blockers enough to listing. I would ask leals to remedy this by providing link backs to koha-community.org, as well as referencing the software directly on their page. Any clarification about the nature of exactly what codebase they're offering services upon would be appreciated.
We offer services for the official upstream release, and of course for the software we have developed.
I remember a discussion some time ago about the requirements for listing, but I don't recall the resolution. Perhaps I'm being too restrictive; I have no objections to leals being listed if they do indeed provide Koha support, but from their website I have no idea if that's true or not. A single link and the word "Koha" would go a long way in that regard.
We will add the product name, Koha ILS, and the link to koha-community.org .
I have to get a break now, but I will be back and fix the issues Ian name. I hope show results and report tomorrow.
Best regards, -- David Díaz (davi) worker of www.leals.com, a business democratically managed by its workers. Webmaster, Debian Maintainer, Software Engineer. Available for hire through www.leals.com
-- Ian Walls Lead Development Specialist ByWater Solutions Phone # (888) 900-8944 http://bywatersolutions.com ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com Twitter: @sekjal
Ian Walls wrote:
Thanks for clarifying leals services offered on Koha, and your willingness to update the company site to reference Koha and link back to the community website. I really don't want to be an antagonist, but those small HTML edits go a long way for me personally (I love Koha and the community that has grown up around it).
I have added the Koha ILS product name linking to http://koha-community.org/ . See http://www.leals.com/library
As for the integration of EDIFACT, that development partner you reference is my company, ByWater Solutions. I may have pounced too vigorously on this point because, frankly, I'm embarrassed that I haven't gotten further with the integration in the time I've had. I've been quite busy, and the changes to the Acquisitions module in 3.2+ make for a thick mental stew of conceptual rebasery.
You are the one. Nice to meet you. IMHO if partnership is done rightly it is always the right way. If not done rightly it can be a suffering source.
I in no way intent to point blame at anyone (other than myself) about the EDIFACT work not being integrated; though, if you've got it working on the current HEAD of Koha, I'd love to see any updates/modifications you needed to make to get it working.
No new customers have requested the EDIFACT feature, so we have not invested time on that. It looks like clients are not interested in it. Best regards, -- David Díaz (davi) worker of www.leals.com, a business democratically managed by its workers. Webmaster, Debian Maintainer, Software Engineer. Available for hire through www.leals.com
Hi Le 09/07/2011 11:37, davi@gnu.org a écrit :
Ian Walls wrote:
No new customers have requested the EDIFACT feature, so we have not invested time on that. It looks like clients are not interested in it. Well, in fact, some libraries are eagerly anxious to have EDIFACT feature in Koha. But since there are some work in progress on that... And we donot want to reegineer some already produced code (even though not publicised) and donot have time or budget to devote to that, we have to tell them Koha does not do that at the moment.
-- Henri-Damien LAURENT
LAURENT Henri-Damien wrote:
davi@gnu.org a écrit:
Ian Walls wrote: No new customers have requested the EDIFACT feature, so we have not invested time on that. It looks like clients are not interested in it.
Well, in fact, some libraries are eagerly anxious to have EDIFACT feature in Koha. But since there are some work in progress on that... And we donot want to reegineer some already produced code (even though not publicised) and donot have time or budget to devote to that, we have to tell them Koha does not do that at the moment.
To me it is just a matter of time. We can not donate time to the community now as we are very short of it. We have to spend time where it produces money to us. For us, at this time, it is a matter of survival. Best regards, -- David Díaz (davi) worker of www.leals.com, a business democratically managed by its workers. Webmaster, Debian Maintainer, Software Engineer. Available for hire through www.leals.com
Hi Henri UK public authorities and academic institutions now require EDIfact integration so this has become something which we at PTFS Europe have been working toward over the past couple of months. We now have a branch containing EDIfact integration for Koha which is online at GitHub (https://github.com/paddyfitz/koha/tree/EDIfact_3.4.x). Bertrams and Dawsons booksellers have been a part of the process throughout and the current implementation successfully processes QUOTE and ORDER messages to/from both vendors. We currently have one live customer using the EDIfact module successfully, and another will be going live in the next couple of weeks. We will be tidying the code and submitting to the community in the near future. Regards, Mark -- Mark Gavillet Software Engineer PTFS Europe Ltd Mobile: +44 (0)777 6111 498 Skype: mark.gavillet www.ptfs-europe.com On 11 July 2011 08:52, LAURENT Henri-Damien <henridamien.laurent@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Le 09/07/2011 11:37, davi@gnu.org a écrit :
Ian Walls wrote:
No new customers have requested the EDIFACT feature, so we have not invested time on that. It looks like clients are not interested in it. Well, in fact, some libraries are eagerly anxious to have EDIFACT feature in Koha. But since there are some work in progress on that... And we donot want to reegineer some already produced code (even though not publicised) and donot have time or budget to devote to that, we have to tell them Koha does not do that at the moment.
-- Henri-Damien LAURENT _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
-- Mark Gavillet Software Engineer PTFS Europe Ltd Mobile: +44 (0)777 6111 498 Skype: mark.gavillet www.ptfs-europe.com
On 2011-07-9, at 9:37 PM, davi@gnu.org wrote:
Ian Walls wrote:
Thanks for clarifying leals services offered on Koha, and your willingness to update the company site to reference Koha and link back to the community website. I really don't want to be an antagonist, but those small HTML edits go a long way for me personally (I love Koha and the community that has grown up around it).
I have added the Koha ILS product name linking to http://koha-community.org/ . See http://www.leals.com/library
cool, thanks for doing that David, it's good to lead by example ;) i would personally like to see a url link to the 'koha-community.org' website on *every* Koha support-vendor's website, as the *very* minimum requirement for being listed on the kc.org 'Paid Support' page what do other people think about this - as a minimum requirement? is it a worthy topic for the next IRC meeting?, or can we sort this issue out on the mailing-list cheers, Mason -- KohaAloha, NZ
JAMES Mason wrote:
i would personally like to see a url link to the 'koha-community.org' website on *every* Koha support-vendor's website, as the *very* minimum requirement for being listed on the kc.org 'Paid Support' page
what do other people think about this - as a minimum requirement? is it a worthy topic for the next IRC meeting?, or can we sort this issue out on the mailing-list
IMHO best place would be next IRC meeting, however any talk is good, and so are talks in the mailing list too. Best regards, -- David Díaz (davi) worker of www.leals.com, a business democratically managed by its workers. Webmaster, Debian Maintainer, Software Engineer. Available for hire through www.leals.com
Hi, See below update for the description and contact email. If it is possible we would like to link to our Koha demo, else feel free to drop it. Company Name: leals.com Contact Person: David Díaz Contact email: info@leals.com Website: www.leals.com Telephone: +34 922 37 18 42 Address: Iriarte, 12, 38400 Puerto de la Cruz, S/C de Tenerife, Spain Short description of your services: <snip> We provide the full range of services: installation, migration from other platforms, data loading, integration with other systems, customisation and development, training, maintenance, ongoing support, consulting and hosting if required. See http://www.leals.com/library for details. You can access to our Koha demo at http://library.leals.com/ for the OPAC, and http://library.leals.com:8080/ for the Staff Interface. To log in type 'demo' to both user and password. Our aim is to put technology to serve our customers. Our work shows our focus on quality, stability, security, cost and open standards. </snip> Best regards, -- David Díaz (davi) worker of www.leals.com, a business democratically managed by its workers. Webmaster, Debian Maintainer, Software Engineer. Available for hire through www.leals.com
JAMES Mason wrote:
i would personally like to see a url link to the 'koha-community.org' website on *every* Koha support-vendor's website, as the *very* minimum requirement for being listed on the kc.org 'Paid Support' page
what do other people think about this - as a minimum requirement? is it a worthy topic for the next IRC meeting?, or can we sort this issue out on the mailing-list
I agree, but it's been discussed in past IRC meetings and rejected: http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/2010-05-05#i_434736 http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/2010-06-02#i_451219 Has anything happened that is likely to change the decision? My other objections to the listing proposed in this thread still stand. Should I explain them further? Thanks, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and LMS developer, statistician. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire for Koha work http://www.software.coop/products/koha
On 2011-07-12, at 10:59 PM, MJ Ray wrote:
JAMES Mason wrote:
i would personally like to see a url link to the 'koha-community.org' website on *every* Koha support-vendor's website, as the *very* minimum requirement for being listed on the kc.org 'Paid Support' page
what do other people think about this - as a minimum requirement? is it a worthy topic for the next IRC meeting?, or can we sort this issue out on the mailing-list
I agree, but it's been discussed in past IRC meetings and rejected: http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/2010-05-05#i_434736 http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/2010-06-02#i_451219
thanks for the those links MJ i checked those two IRC meetings logs, and this issue was *not* rejected the chair (Galen) made an action-item to discuss (and vote?) on this issue via the 'mailing-list', and we never followed that up.... so, lets have that discussion (and vote?) now :) should we move this discussions to the *general* Koha mailing-list? http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/2010-06-02#i_451387 ----------------------------------------------- 11:18 gmcharlt for new requests to be listed, the vendor listing must link provide a link to koha-community.org; link must be eye-reable and speakable by screen reader software, but with no requirements about the form of the link otherwise 11:24 gmcharlt thd: I agree - in this case, I would prefer that the final vote take place on the mailing list, particularly as, given the time of this meeting, we're discussing this in the absence of wizzyrea 11:24 slef gmcharlt: was there a second part, or do you want to move on to address infokoha now? 11:24 gmcharlt here's the second part 11:24 and this may well have to end up on the mailing list 11:24 what do we do about current listings? 11:25 grandparent them in? clear the vendor listing and ask everybody to resubmit requests? 11:26 thd I suggest we make no change to the policy agreed at the previous meeting until the wide community votes on the issue 11:26 gmcharlt ok, then for now - action item is to put this to the mailing list 11:26 moving on 11:26 I added the info@ item ----------------------------------------------- cheers, Mason -- KohaAloha, NZ
participants (6)
-
davi＠gnu.org -
Ian Walls -
JAMES Mason -
LAURENT Henri-Damien -
Mark Gavillet -
MJ Ray