Hi all, I think it should be fine to have a developper irc channel to talk about technical questions, without been flooded by user/install questions, and talk only about code guidelines, futur of koha, ways to do, how to do, etc... What do you think about this? bests, -- Nahuel ANGELINETTI
I'm reluctant to agree developers should "split off" from users into a different channel; it reinforces that perceived divide between users and developers that has been used to cast aspersions on the community in the past. Having experts in the community room is important. If we could be in two channels simultaneously, that would make conversational threads easier to follow. One channel (or more) channel(s) for user/install questions, another one for developer talk. Mibbit doesn't do well with that, in my opinion, and I'm limited to using web-based clients, as my network blocks IRC. Anyone know of a better tool I could use? Cheers, Ian Walls Systems Integration Librarian NYU Health Sciences Libraries 550 First Ave., New York, NY 10016 (212) 263-8687 -----Original Message----- From: koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha.org [mailto:koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha.org] On Behalf Of Nahuel ANGELINETTI Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:46 AM To: koha-devel@lists.koha.org Subject: [Koha-devel] koha-dev IRC channel ? Hi all, I think it should be fine to have a developper irc channel to talk about technical questions, without been flooded by user/install questions, and talk only about code guidelines, futur of koha, ways to do, how to do, etc... What do you think about this? bests, -- Nahuel ANGELINETTI _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel ------------------------------------------------------------ This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. =================================
I'm with Ian, I think we should all stick together in every way - IRC channel included. Nicole On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Walls, Ian <Ian.Walls@med.nyu.edu> wrote:
I'm reluctant to agree developers should "split off" from users into a different channel; it reinforces that perceived divide between users and developers that has been used to cast aspersions on the community in the past. Having experts in the community room is important.
If we could be in two channels simultaneously, that would make conversational threads easier to follow. One channel (or more) channel(s) for user/install questions, another one for developer talk. Mibbit doesn't do well with that, in my opinion, and I'm limited to using web-based clients, as my network blocks IRC. Anyone know of a better tool I could use?
Cheers,
Ian Walls Systems Integration Librarian NYU Health Sciences Libraries 550 First Ave., New York, NY 10016 (212) 263-8687
-----Original Message----- From: koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha.org [mailto:koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha.org] On Behalf Of Nahuel ANGELINETTI Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:46 AM To: koha-devel@lists.koha.org Subject: [Koha-devel] koha-dev IRC channel ?
Hi all,
I think it should be fine to have a developper irc channel to talk about technical questions, without been flooded by user/install questions, and talk only about code guidelines, futur of koha, ways to do, how to do, etc...
What do you think about this?
bests,
-- Nahuel ANGELINETTI
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
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_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
Late comer to this discussion - and one from a user standpoint - when we have had "meetings" for other things KOHA I have received several emails asking WHY we are not using IRC as it is the main meeting space for all things Koha. Those concerns were raised mainly by developers. I find it somewhat ironic then to have this discussion come up. I prefer the single IRC only because it makes it much easier to read a days activity of Koha and also I believe to search for things that may have already been discussed to find answers. If nothing else Koha IRC is a large meeting room and if you need to PM people to help them and make connections with people that is great. I believe we see the same thing already happening with Koha-discuss and Koha-Dev and being open source I don't think we will be able to get people on the right list ever as there are always newbies coming along. I was one of those very recently(still am I think) and it is hard to post the right question at the right place. Often I think people post to Dev thinking they will get a more competent answer - and then I reply! HA!!!! David Schuster nengard wrote:
I'm with Ian, I think we should all stick together in every way - IRC channel included.
Nicole
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Walls, Ian <Ian.Walls@med.nyu.edu> wrote:
I'm reluctant to agree developers should "split off" from users into a different channel; it reinforces that perceived divide between users and developers that has been used to cast aspersions on the community in the past. Having experts in the community room is important.
If we could be in two channels simultaneously, that would make conversational threads easier to follow. One channel (or more) channel(s) for user/install questions, another one for developer talk. Mibbit doesn't do well with that, in my opinion, and I'm limited to using web-based clients, as my network blocks IRC. Anyone know of a better tool I could use?
Cheers,
Ian Walls Systems Integration Librarian NYU Health Sciences Libraries 550 First Ave., New York, NY 10016 (212) 263-8687
-----Original Message----- From: koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha.org [mailto:koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha.org] On Behalf Of Nahuel ANGELINETTI Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:46 AM To: koha-devel@lists.koha.org Subject: [Koha-devel] koha-dev IRC channel ?
Hi all,
I think it should be fine to have a developper irc channel to talk about technical questions, without been flooded by user/install questions, and talk only about code guidelines, futur of koha, ways to do, how to do, etc...
What do you think about this?
bests,
-- Nahuel ANGELINETTI
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
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-- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/koha-dev-IRC-channel---tp26729567p26812045.html Sent from the Koha - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Le 10/12/2009 16:57, Walls, Ian a écrit :
I'm reluctant to agree developers should "split off" from users into a different channel; it reinforces that perceived divide between users and developers that has been used to cast aspersions on the community in the past. Having experts in the community room is important.
It's not a split porposal! It just an idea, because at the moment, we are not talking at all on IRC, because there is a lot of non-technical talks. The idea is to create more connexions between developpers all over the world.
If we could be in two channels simultaneously, that would make conversational threads easier to follow. One channel (or more) channel(s) for user/install questions, another one for developer talk. Mibbit doesn't do well with that, in my opinion, and I'm limited to using web-based clients, as my network blocks IRC. Anyone know of a better tool I could use?
Look at this : http://www.web-irc.org/ bests, -- Nahuel ANGELINETTI
I don't think that the developers should be holding back :) I say start talking techie in the #koha channel and when people need non techie talk that can happen to. I use X-Chat and can have 2 channels open at once, I just don't like the idea of having discussions split among 2 rooms. Nicole On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Nahuel ANGELINETTI <nahuel.angelinetti@biblibre.com> wrote:
Le 10/12/2009 16:57, Walls, Ian a écrit :
I'm reluctant to agree developers should "split off" from users into a different channel; it reinforces that perceived divide between users and developers that has been used to cast aspersions on the community in the past. Having experts in the community room is important.
It's not a split porposal! It just an idea, because at the moment, we are not talking at all on IRC, because there is a lot of non-technical talks. The idea is to create more connexions between developpers all over the world.
If we could be in two channels simultaneously, that would make conversational threads easier to follow. One channel (or more) channel(s) for user/install questions, another one for developer talk. Mibbit doesn't do well with that, in my opinion, and I'm limited to using web-based clients, as my network blocks IRC. Anyone know of a better tool I could use?
Look at this : http://www.web-irc.org/
bests,
-- Nahuel ANGELINETTI
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
Nahuel, I understand. The intent is to help the developers develop, the users use, and everyone get more out of Koha. As we get more and more users, and more and more of them use IRC for questions, it's going to get harder and harder to have developer-type discussions in the main channel. Having a separate channel is a way to handle that. My concern is that, despite the practical reality of needing multiple channels to organize our topics of conversation, it may be misinterpreted by folks as a divide. Perception is everything, they say. So long as we're clear about the purpose of this channel, and users still get the help they need in the main channel, I'm perfectly okay with it. I just wanted to voice the potential concerns as I saw them, and allow us to "head them off at the pass", so to speak. Cheers, -Ian -----Original Message----- From: Nahuel ANGELINETTI [mailto:nahuel.angelinetti@biblibre.com] Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:07 AM To: Walls, Ian Cc: koha-devel@lists.koha.org Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] koha-dev IRC channel ? Le 10/12/2009 16:57, Walls, Ian a écrit :
I'm reluctant to agree developers should "split off" from users into a different channel; it reinforces that perceived divide between users and developers that has been used to cast aspersions on the community in the past. Having experts in the community room is important.
It's not a split porposal! It just an idea, because at the moment, we are not talking at all on IRC, because there is a lot of non-technical talks. The idea is to create more connexions between developpers all over the world.
If we could be in two channels simultaneously, that would make conversational threads easier to follow. One channel (or more) channel(s) for user/install questions, another one for developer talk. Mibbit doesn't do well with that, in my opinion, and I'm limited to using web-based clients, as my network blocks IRC. Anyone know of a better tool I could use?
Look at this : http://www.web-irc.org/ bests, -- Nahuel ANGELINETTI ------------------------------------------------------------ This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. =================================
I've always wondered why the developer meetings to place on #koha. It seems logical to me to have them take place in #developer-meeting or something similar. The meetings would still be open to all, but people not interested in the meeting would not interrupt it by accident. Kyle http://www.kylehall.info Information Technology Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org ) On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Walls, Ian <Ian.Walls@med.nyu.edu> wrote:
Nahuel,
I understand. The intent is to help the developers develop, the users use, and everyone get more out of Koha. As we get more and more users, and more and more of them use IRC for questions, it's going to get harder and harder to have developer-type discussions in the main channel. Having a separate channel is a way to handle that.
My concern is that, despite the practical reality of needing multiple channels to organize our topics of conversation, it may be misinterpreted by folks as a divide. Perception is everything, they say.
So long as we're clear about the purpose of this channel, and users still get the help they need in the main channel, I'm perfectly okay with it. I just wanted to voice the potential concerns as I saw them, and allow us to "head them off at the pass", so to speak.
Cheers,
-Ian
-----Original Message----- From: Nahuel ANGELINETTI [mailto:nahuel.angelinetti@biblibre.com] Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:07 AM To: Walls, Ian Cc: koha-devel@lists.koha.org Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] koha-dev IRC channel ?
Le 10/12/2009 16:57, Walls, Ian a écrit :
I'm reluctant to agree developers should "split off" from users into a different channel; it reinforces that perceived divide between users and developers that has been used to cast aspersions on the community in the past. Having experts in the community room is important.
It's not a split porposal! It just an idea, because at the moment, we are not talking at all on IRC, because there is a lot of non-technical talks. The idea is to create more connexions between developpers all over the world.
If we could be in two channels simultaneously, that would make conversational threads easier to follow. One channel (or more) channel(s) for user/install questions, another one for developer talk. Mibbit doesn't do well with that, in my opinion, and I'm limited to using web-based clients, as my network blocks IRC. Anyone know of a better tool I could use?
Look at this : http://www.web-irc.org/
bests,
-- Nahuel ANGELINETTI
------------------------------------------------------------ This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. =================================
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
If we want to get super-fancy, we could set up a Wave server, and condense the IRC, mailing lists and blog/wiki/twitter presence into one communications tool. Then, all the community's knowledgebase would be in one format, distributable by Git along with the source code, and easily searchable/linkable by anyone. So, we just need a sweet open source Wave server and client... right then. -Ian -----Original Message----- From: Kyle Hall [mailto:kyle.m.hall@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:31 AM To: Walls, Ian Cc: Nahuel ANGELINETTI; koha-devel@lists.koha.org Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] koha-dev IRC channel ? I've always wondered why the developer meetings to place on #koha. It seems logical to me to have them take place in #developer-meeting or something similar. The meetings would still be open to all, but people not interested in the meeting would not interrupt it by accident. Kyle http://www.kylehall.info Information Technology Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org ) On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Walls, Ian <Ian.Walls@med.nyu.edu> wrote:
Nahuel,
I understand. The intent is to help the developers develop, the users use, and everyone get more out of Koha. As we get more and more users, and more and more of them use IRC for questions, it's going to get harder and harder to have developer-type discussions in the main channel. Having a separate channel is a way to handle that.
My concern is that, despite the practical reality of needing multiple channels to organize our topics of conversation, it may be misinterpreted by folks as a divide. Perception is everything, they say.
So long as we're clear about the purpose of this channel, and users still get the help they need in the main channel, I'm perfectly okay with it. I just wanted to voice the potential concerns as I saw them, and allow us to "head them off at the pass", so to speak.
Cheers,
-Ian
-----Original Message----- From: Nahuel ANGELINETTI [mailto:nahuel.angelinetti@biblibre.com] Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:07 AM To: Walls, Ian Cc: koha-devel@lists.koha.org Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] koha-dev IRC channel ?
Le 10/12/2009 16:57, Walls, Ian a écrit :
I'm reluctant to agree developers should "split off" from users into a different channel; it reinforces that perceived divide between users and developers that has been used to cast aspersions on the community in the past. Having experts in the community room is important.
It's not a split porposal! It just an idea, because at the moment, we are not talking at all on IRC, because there is a lot of non-technical talks. The idea is to create more connexions between developpers all over the world.
If we could be in two channels simultaneously, that would make conversational threads easier to follow. One channel (or more) channel(s) for user/install questions, another one for developer talk. Mibbit doesn't do well with that, in my opinion, and I'm limited to using web-based clients, as my network blocks IRC. Anyone know of a better tool I could use?
Look at this : http://www.web-irc.org/
bests,
-- Nahuel ANGELINETTI
------------------------------------------------------------ This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. =================================
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Heh. Sounds like a good way to get a headache from information overload ; ) Kyle http://www.kylehall.info Information Technology Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org ) On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Walls, Ian <Ian.Walls@med.nyu.edu> wrote:
If we want to get super-fancy, we could set up a Wave server, and condense the IRC, mailing lists and blog/wiki/twitter presence into one communications tool. Then, all the community's knowledgebase would be in one format, distributable by Git along with the source code, and easily searchable/linkable by anyone.
So, we just need a sweet open source Wave server and client... right then.
-Ian
-----Original Message----- From: Kyle Hall [mailto:kyle.m.hall@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:31 AM To: Walls, Ian Cc: Nahuel ANGELINETTI; koha-devel@lists.koha.org Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] koha-dev IRC channel ?
I've always wondered why the developer meetings to place on #koha. It seems logical to me to have them take place in #developer-meeting or something similar. The meetings would still be open to all, but people not interested in the meeting would not interrupt it by accident.
Kyle
http://www.kylehall.info Information Technology Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Walls, Ian <Ian.Walls@med.nyu.edu> wrote:
Nahuel,
I understand. The intent is to help the developers develop, the users use, and everyone get more out of Koha. As we get more and more users, and more and more of them use IRC for questions, it's going to get harder and harder to have developer-type discussions in the main channel. Having a separate channel is a way to handle that.
My concern is that, despite the practical reality of needing multiple channels to organize our topics of conversation, it may be misinterpreted by folks as a divide. Perception is everything, they say.
So long as we're clear about the purpose of this channel, and users still get the help they need in the main channel, I'm perfectly okay with it. I just wanted to voice the potential concerns as I saw them, and allow us to "head them off at the pass", so to speak.
Cheers,
-Ian
-----Original Message----- From: Nahuel ANGELINETTI [mailto:nahuel.angelinetti@biblibre.com] Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:07 AM To: Walls, Ian Cc: koha-devel@lists.koha.org Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] koha-dev IRC channel ?
Le 10/12/2009 16:57, Walls, Ian a écrit :
I'm reluctant to agree developers should "split off" from users into a different channel; it reinforces that perceived divide between users and developers that has been used to cast aspersions on the community in the past. Having experts in the community room is important.
It's not a split porposal! It just an idea, because at the moment, we are not talking at all on IRC, because there is a lot of non-technical talks. The idea is to create more connexions between developpers all over the world.
If we could be in two channels simultaneously, that would make conversational threads easier to follow. One channel (or more) channel(s) for user/install questions, another one for developer talk. Mibbit doesn't do well with that, in my opinion, and I'm limited to using web-based clients, as my network blocks IRC. Anyone know of a better tool I could use?
Look at this : http://www.web-irc.org/
bests,
-- Nahuel ANGELINETTI
------------------------------------------------------------ This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. =================================
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2009/12/11 Kyle Hall <kyle.m.hall@gmail.com>:
I've always wondered why the developer meetings to place on #koha. It seems logical to me to have them take place in #developer-meeting or something similar. The meetings would still be open to all, but people not interested in the meeting would not interrupt it by accident.
In the 10 years of the irc channel existing, this has never actually been a problem. (Meetings being interrupted). I agree with Nahuel that currently there are a lot of people asking install questions, and not as much higher level technical discussion. But I also agree with Ian and Nicole, and that we should just talk about it if we need to. If there was a #koha-developers channel I would still stay on #koha, and maybe lurk in there too, but #koha is the main focus ... what we really need to do is turn the CGI::IRC script off on koha.org. If anyone at Liblime is reading this, could you please either give someone edit rights on the free support page, or remove the link to the cgi-irc gateway please. Mibbit is far better. Chris
Nahuel ANGELINETTI wrote:
I think it should be fine to have a developper irc channel to talk about technical questions, without been flooded by user/install questions, and talk only about code guidelines, futur of koha, ways to do, how to do, etc...
What do you think about this?
I think dividing the community is a good way to help people conquer it, so development should continue to be discussed in the main IRC channel. If you need a break-out channel to go discuss things for a while and then bring the conclusions back to the main channel, that's simple with IRC. Also maybe a koha-lobby should be opened while meetings are happening in the main channel. Is this an actual problem? Can you show something in the logs where a technical discussion and user questions have come into conflict? Thanks, -- MJ Ray (slef) Webmaster and LMS developer at | software www.software.coop http://mjr.towers.org.uk | .... co IMO only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html | .... op
participants (7)
-
Chris Cormack -
David Schuster -
Kyle Hall -
MJ Ray -
Nahuel ANGELINETTI -
Nicole Engard -
Walls, Ian