I was just looking to use ".text-success" in the staff client, when I noticed that it didn't appear to exist in bootstrap.min.css. even though it should. You can find it here in Bootstrap 2.2.2: https://maxcdn.bootstrapcdn.com/bootstrap/2.2.2/css/bootstrap.min.css But not in the version that we have in the staff client: http://koha:8080/intranet-tmpl/lib/bootstrap/bootstrap.min.css I'm guessing that during the integration of Bootstrap into the staff client that some things just didn't work, so the file was pared back? Perhaps Owen can speak to that one? David Cook Systems Librarian Prosentient Systems 72/330 Wattle St, Ultimo, NSW 2007
Hi! I have had similar issues with Javascript (jQuery) minified files. Using the not-minified version fixed the issues for me. (and upgrading to the newest version) I would just upgrade the bootstrap to the newest version. Olli-Antti Kivilahti Järjestelmäkeittäjä vaarakirjastot.fi +358 50 449 7763 --Powered by Kubuntu Linux! On 01.09.2015 05:30, David Cook wrote: I was just looking to use “.text-success” in the staff client, when I noticed that it didn’t appear to exist in bootstrap.min.css… even though it should. You can find it here in Bootstrap 2.2.2: https://maxcdn.bootstrapcdn.com/bootstrap/2.2.2/css/bootstrap.min.css But not in the version that we have in the staff client: http://koha:8080/intranet-tmpl/lib/bootstrap/bootstrap.min.css I’m guessing that during the integration of Bootstrap into the staff client that some things just didn’t work, so the file was pared back? Perhaps Owen can speak to that one? David Cook Systems Librarian Prosentient Systems 72/330 Wattle St, Ultimo, NSW 2007 _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org<mailto:Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
On 01.09.2015 05:30, David Cook wrote:
I was just looking to use “.text-success” in the staff client, when I noticed that it didn’t appear to exist in bootstrap.min.css… even though it should.
If I recall correctly, both the OPAC and staff client use customized builds of Bootstrap in order to omit features which we don't (didn't) use and keep file sizes down. The version 2.x Bootstrap customizer didn't automatically provide good notes about what features were left out, so it's not obvious from looking at them. On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 3:22 AM, Kivilahti Olli-Antti <olli-antti.kivilahti@jns.fi> wrote:
I would just upgrade the bootstrap to the newest version.
"Just?" At this point we are probably looking at "just" jumping from Bootstrap 2 to Bootstrap 4 (now in alpha), and there should be plenty of discussion of the process, including how much of Bootstrap's built-in look we want to retain, what features we want to include, and how willing we are to accept Bootstrap 4's minimum browser requirements. -- Owen -- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
On 15-09-3 1:55 am, Owen Leonard wrote:
On 01.09.2015 05:30, David Cook wrote:
I was just looking to use “.text-success” in the staff client, when I noticed that it didn’t appear to exist in bootstrap.min.css… even though it should. If I recall correctly, both the OPAC and staff client use customized builds of Bootstrap in order to omit features which we don't (didn't) use and keep file sizes down. The version 2.x Bootstrap customizer didn't automatically provide good notes about what features were left out, so it's not obvious from looking at them.
On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 3:22 AM, Kivilahti Olli-Antti <olli-antti.kivilahti@jns.fi> wrote:
I would just upgrade the bootstrap to the newest version. "Just?" At this point we are probably looking at "just" jumping from Bootstrap 2 to Bootstrap 4 (now in alpha), and there should be plenty of discussion of the process, including how much of Bootstrap's built-in look we want to retain, what features we want to include, and how willing we are to accept Bootstrap 4's minimum browser requirements. hmm, perhaps a good 'transitional' compromise would be to use a full bootstrap 2.x build
can we anticipate what parts of BS we would (or wouldn't) require in the future? do we gain much from having a stripped BS build? is it worth the inconvenience to developers? -- Mason
do we gain much from having a stripped BS build? is it worth the inconvenience to developers?
We gain a faster system. I think that's worth inconvenience to developers. -- Owen -- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
Owen: Ahh, I didn't realize that Bootstrap had a customizer. I figured it had to be something along those lines. It's a shame they don't indicate in the comments that it was a custom version built by them at least :S. Everyone: I also agree with Owen about there being a discussion about the move from the existing Bootstrap 2 to a newer version. I figure the look, feel, and usability of Koha is a rather high priority. The browser requirements are also an important consideration (at least to me), since we have quite a few clients using IE8 (which is dropped in Bootstrap 4), if I recall correctly. Bootstrap 3 dropped support for IE7, although one could workaround that with the following https://github.com/coliff/bootstrap-ie7 (which I've done in DSpace 3+). I don't know if someone is planning for something similar with Bootstrap 4 or even if something similar is possible. I know, as a community, that we're not that keen on supporting older versions of IE, so I understand if that's a burden I need to take on individually (or if it's the straw that breaks the camel's back and I start refusing to support it as well). Owen: Regarding the speed, did you find there was a noticeable difference in the speed of the custom CSS vs the full CSS? Lately, I've been testing page load speeds (for a different system), and it seems that the load times of minified CSS are pretty trivial. For example, at http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/, it took 65ms to load 23.9KB http://getbootstrap.com/dist/css/bootstrap.min.css, which appears to be the full Bootstrap 3.3.5. The full file for 2.2.2 (https://maxcdn.bootstrapcdn.com/bootstrap/2.2.2/css/bootstrap.min.css) is even smaller than that one. At .065 of a second, I think that's pretty fast. I think if we're going to get speed improvements at this point, they're going to come from Plack/mod_perl. David Cook Systems Librarian Prosentient Systems 72/330 Wattle St, Ultimo, NSW 2007
-----Original Message----- From: koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:koha-devel- bounces@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Owen Leonard Sent: Friday, 4 September 2015 10:08 PM To: koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Bootstrap 2.2.2 in the staff client
do we gain much from having a stripped BS build? is it worth the inconvenience to developers?
We gain a faster system. I think that's worth inconvenience to developers.
-- Owen
-- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha- community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
Hi there! Regarding IE versions less than 10. Because we wanted to get top scores from www.ssllabs.com SSL tests, we support only specific TLS encryptions, which are not supported by old IE's. We decided security is more important for us than crappy IE. So instead of downgrading our SSL, we decided to upgrade our users. Also we can promote usage of Firefox and Chrome by telling people to install them or upgrade to newest IE :) And we are not a small library with few thousand users. It is easy to justify when you say we want to secure the sessions with reliable encryption. So far we haven't got any PR issues what so ever. So I say nuke IE, go with Bootstrap 4. Olli-Antti Kivilahti Järjestelmäkeittäjä vaarakirjastot.fi +358 50 449 7763 --Powered by Kubuntu Linux! On 08.09.2015 09:32, David Cook wrote:
Owen: Ahh, I didn't realize that Bootstrap had a customizer. I figured it had to be something along those lines. It's a shame they don't indicate in the comments that it was a custom version built by them at least :S.
Everyone: I also agree with Owen about there being a discussion about the move from the existing Bootstrap 2 to a newer version. I figure the look, feel, and usability of Koha is a rather high priority. The browser requirements are also an important consideration (at least to me), since we have quite a few clients using IE8 (which is dropped in Bootstrap 4), if I recall correctly.
Bootstrap 3 dropped support for IE7, although one could workaround that with the following https://github.com/coliff/bootstrap-ie7 (which I've done in DSpace 3+). I don't know if someone is planning for something similar with Bootstrap 4 or even if something similar is possible. I know, as a community, that we're not that keen on supporting older versions of IE, so I understand if that's a burden I need to take on individually (or if it's the straw that breaks the camel's back and I start refusing to support it as well).
Owen: Regarding the speed, did you find there was a noticeable difference in the speed of the custom CSS vs the full CSS? Lately, I've been testing page load speeds (for a different system), and it seems that the load times of minified CSS are pretty trivial.
For example, at http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/, it took 65ms to load 23.9KB http://getbootstrap.com/dist/css/bootstrap.min.css, which appears to be the full Bootstrap 3.3.5. The full file for 2.2.2 (https://maxcdn.bootstrapcdn.com/bootstrap/2.2.2/css/bootstrap.min.css) is even smaller than that one. At .065 of a second, I think that's pretty fast. I think if we're going to get speed improvements at this point, they're going to come from Plack/mod_perl.
David Cook Systems Librarian Prosentient Systems 72/330 Wattle St, Ultimo, NSW 2007
-----Original Message----- From: koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:koha-devel- bounces@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Owen Leonard Sent: Friday, 4 September 2015 10:08 PM To: koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Bootstrap 2.2.2 in the staff client
do we gain much from having a stripped BS build? is it worth the inconvenience to developers? We gain a faster system. I think that's worth inconvenience to developers.
-- Owen
-- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha- community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 2:32 AM, David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> wrote:
Owen: Ahh, I didn't realize that Bootstrap had a customizer. I figured it had to be something along those lines. It's a shame they don't indicate in the comments that it was a custom version built by them at least :S.
Newer versions do, for what it's worth.
Owen: Regarding the speed, did you find there was a noticeable difference in the speed of the custom CSS vs the full CSS?
I didn't test speed differences, I just worked on the assumption that smaller is better. I think shaving off every byte we can is going to add up to speed improvements.
I think if we're going to get speed improvements at this point, they're going to come from Plack/mod_perl.
As a mostly-front-end guy who can't contribute to server-side speed improvements I consider it my job to make whatever performance improvements I can where I can. There's definitely more we can do, and I will continue to argue that we need to make the speed of the interface a higher priority than the ease of the developers' workflow. That said, I'm anxious to move forward on a Bootstrap upgrade, not least because it should be clearer to everyone what's in Bootstrap and what isn't. -- Owen -- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
I think the assumption that smaller is better is a fair one, and as you contribute so much to the front-end of Koha, I can definitely appreciate you wanting to make whatever performance improvements you can where you can. I agree that the speed of the interface is a higher priority than the ease of the developers' workflow. If you're happy to move forward on a Bootstrap upgrade, I think that's great. As a developer that does bits and pieces on the front and back, I'd appreciate a clearer picture of what's in our version of Bootstrap and what isn't, but I'm not going to make a fuss. For example, the .text-success class that sparked my original email is so trivial. I think the Bootstrap we have had has been great, but if it can be clearer what we have access to and what we don't, that would be even better. Cheers, David Cook Systems Librarian Prosentient Systems 72/330 Wattle St, Ultimo, NSW 2007
-----Original Message----- From: koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:koha-devel- bounces@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Owen Leonard Sent: Tuesday, 8 September 2015 10:28 PM To: koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Bootstrap 2.2.2 in the staff client
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 2:32 AM, David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> wrote:
Owen: Ahh, I didn't realize that Bootstrap had a customizer. I figured it had to be something along those lines. It's a shame they don't indicate in the comments that it was a custom version built by them at least :S.
Newer versions do, for what it's worth.
Owen: Regarding the speed, did you find there was a noticeable difference in the speed of the custom CSS vs the full CSS?
I didn't test speed differences, I just worked on the assumption that smaller is better. I think shaving off every byte we can is going to add up to speed improvements.
I think if we're going to get speed improvements at this point, they're going to come from Plack/mod_perl.
As a mostly-front-end guy who can't contribute to server-side speed improvements I consider it my job to make whatever performance improvements I can where I can. There's definitely more we can do, and I will continue to argue that we need to make the speed of the interface a higher priority than the ease of the developers' workflow.
That said, I'm anxious to move forward on a Bootstrap upgrade, not least because it should be clearer to everyone what's in Bootstrap and what isn't.
-- Owen
-- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha- community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
On 15-09-9 12:28 am, Owen Leonard wrote:
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 2:32 AM, David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> wrote:
Owen: Ahh, I didn't realize that Bootstrap had a customizer. I figured it had to be something along those lines. It's a shame they don't indicate in the comments that it was a custom version built by them at least :S. Newer versions do, for what it's worth.
Owen: Regarding the speed, did you find there was a noticeable difference in the speed of the custom CSS vs the full CSS? I didn't test speed differences, I just worked on the assumption that smaller is better. I think shaving off every byte we can is going to add up to speed improvements.
here is some nice info about measuring the load time of a page https://developer.chrome.com/devtools/docs/network#resource-network-timing also.. http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/dom/Event/DOMContentLoaded one thing i'm curious about is measuring the parsing/rendering time of CSS anyone know how to do that?
participants (4)
-
David Cook -
Kivilahti Olli-Antti -
Mason James -
Owen Leonard