Placing multiple record-level holds on a record
Hi all, I'm noticing in 22.11 that it's possible to place multiple record-level holds on a record. Do you think that's intentional? While I can understand having multiple item-level holds, having multiple record-level holds seems like a way to game the system. David Cook Senior Software Engineer Prosentient Systems Suite 7.03 6a Glen St Milsons Point NSW 2061 Australia Office: 02 9212 0899 Online: 02 8005 0595
hi David, it depends, there is definitely a feature to do that. If you can place multiple per record is defined in the circulation rules. If holds per record is 1, you should of course not be able to. It's been there for multiple versions now. Hope that helps, Katrin On 22.05.23 06:46, David Cook wrote:
Hi all,
I’m noticing in 22.11 that it’s possible to place multiple record-level holds on a record.
Do you think that’s intentional? While I can understand having multiple item-level holds, having multiple record-level holds seems like a way to game the system…
David Cook
Senior Software Engineer
Prosentient Systems
Suite 7.03
6a Glen St
Milsons Point NSW 2061
Australia
Office: 02 9212 0899
Online: 02 8005 0595
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website :https://www.koha-community.org/ git :https://git.koha-community.org/ bugs :https://bugs.koha-community.org/
Hi Katrin, But I think the intention of “Holds per record (count)” was to enable multiple item-level holds rather than multiple record-level holds? https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14695 I suppose one could argue though that record-level holds are ultimately still for items… but (depending on your rules) you can place 1+ record-level holds on a record with only 1 item (e.g. I have 10 holds on 1 record that has 1 item). If you have item-level holds, you can only ever place 1 item-level hold on that 1 item. It looks like a loophole/flaw to me. You can also place holds on items you already have checked out which seems weird. (I think it’s probably due to the syspref AllowHoldsOnPatronsPossessions although I think the intention there was probably to allow holds on other items belonging to that record.) I haven’t thoroughly tested it, but I think in theory you could monopolize an item for longer than a library intends if the circ rules were loose. I suppose I was just wondering if these are intentional or accidental behaviours. Holds are tricky though. What I might see as a bug might be a feature to someone else… David Cook Senior Software Engineer Prosentient Systems Suite 7.03 6a Glen St Milsons Point NSW 2061 Australia Office: 02 9212 0899 Online: 02 8005 0595 From: Koha-devel <koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org> On Behalf Of Katrin Fischer Sent: Monday, 22 May 2023 3:19 PM To: koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Placing multiple record-level holds on a record hi David, it depends, there is definitely a feature to do that. If you can place multiple per record is defined in the circulation rules. If holds per record is 1, you should of course not be able to. It's been there for multiple versions now. Hope that helps, Katrin On 22.05.23 06:46, David Cook wrote: Hi all, I’m noticing in 22.11 that it’s possible to place multiple record-level holds on a record. Do you think that’s intentional? While I can understand having multiple item-level holds, having multiple record-level holds seems like a way to game the system… David Cook Senior Software Engineer Prosentient Systems Suite 7.03 6a Glen St Milsons Point NSW 2061 Australia Office: 02 9212 0899 Online: 02 8005 0595 _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org <mailto:Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : https://www.koha-community.org/ git : https://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/
Hi David, Just want to weigh in that our library system does use the ability to place multiple record-level holds for staff-run book discussion programming. (We don't use the Clubs module because for us they are open programs, not clubs with a specific membership list.) We have the circulation rules set to allow multiple record-level holds for staff cards only, so that staff can easily place multiple holds for programming purposes, but customers are still limited to 1 hold per record unless a staff member makes the judgment call to override that limit. I'm not sure that there's a strong reason to use record-level holds instead of item-level holds for that situation, except that, as far as I can tell, Koha does not yet have any multi-select feature (e.g. checkboxes instead of radio buttons) for placing holds on multiple items in a single form submission, correct? Which means that staff can place 20 record-level holds with a few clicks, but need to place 20 item-level holds individually. (I'd love to be told I'm wrong about this, though!) Emily Lamancusa (she/her) IT Specialist III Montgomery County Public Libraries (240) 777-0052 ________________________________ From: David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2023 7:29 PM To: 'Katrin Fischer' <katrin.fischer.83@web.de>; koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Placing multiple record-level holds on a record Hi Katrin, But I think the intention of "Holds per record (count)" was to enable multiple item-level holds rather than multiple record-level holds? https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14695 I suppose one could argue though that record-level holds are ultimately still for items... but (depending on your rules) you can place 1+ record-level holds on a record with only 1 item (e.g. I have 10 holds on 1 record that has 1 item). If you have item-level holds, you can only ever place 1 item-level hold on that 1 item. It looks like a loophole/flaw to me. You can also place holds on items you already have checked out which seems weird. (I think it's probably due to the syspref AllowHoldsOnPatronsPossessions although I think the intention there was probably to allow holds on other items belonging to that record.) I haven't thoroughly tested it, but I think in theory you could monopolize an item for longer than a library intends if the circ rules were loose. I suppose I was just wondering if these are intentional or accidental behaviours. Holds are tricky though. What I might see as a bug might be a feature to someone else... David Cook Senior Software Engineer Prosentient Systems Suite 7.03 6a Glen St Milsons Point NSW 2061 Australia Office: 02 9212 0899 Online: 02 8005 0595 From: Koha-devel <koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org> On Behalf Of Katrin Fischer Sent: Monday, 22 May 2023 3:19 PM To: koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Placing multiple record-level holds on a record hi David, it depends, there is definitely a feature to do that. If you can place multiple per record is defined in the circulation rules. If holds per record is 1, you should of course not be able to. It's been there for multiple versions now. Hope that helps, Katrin On 22.05.23 06:46, David Cook wrote: Hi all, I'm noticing in 22.11 that it's possible to place multiple record-level holds on a record. Do you think that's intentional? While I can understand having multiple item-level holds, having multiple record-level holds seems like a way to game the system... David Cook Senior Software Engineer Prosentient Systems Suite 7.03 6a Glen St Milsons Point NSW 2061 Australia Office: 02 9212 0899 Online: 02 8005 0595 _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org<mailto:Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : https://www.koha-community.org/ git : https://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/ [https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcg/Resources/Images/Cybersecurity-footer...] For more helpful Cybersecurity Resources, visit: https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/cybersecurity
Hi Emily, Thanks for getting in touch. You're right about Koha not having the ability to place multiple item level holds at the same time. There is a bug report for it https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15565 but holds are a notoriously difficult area to change so it's never made it through into Koha, unfortunately. I think the libraries really interested in that functionality might need to get together to sponsor its further work. David Cook Senior Software Engineer Prosentient Systems Suite 7.03 6a Glen St Milsons Point NSW 2061 Australia Office: 02 9212 0899 Online: 02 8005 0595 From: Lamancusa, Emily <Emily.Lamancusa@montgomerycountymd.gov> Sent: Tuesday, 23 May 2023 11:17 PM To: David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au>; 'Katrin Fischer' <katrin.fischer.83@web.de>; koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Placing multiple record-level holds on a record Hi David, Just want to weigh in that our library system does use the ability to place multiple record-level holds for staff-run book discussion programming. (We don't use the Clubs module because for us they are open programs, not clubs with a specific membership list.) We have the circulation rules set to allow multiple record-level holds for staff cards only, so that staff can easily place multiple holds for programming purposes, but customers are still limited to 1 hold per record unless a staff member makes the judgment call to override that limit. I'm not sure that there's a strong reason to use record-level holds instead of item-level holds for that situation, except that, as far as I can tell, Koha does not yet have any multi-select feature (e.g. checkboxes instead of radio buttons) for placing holds on multiple items in a single form submission, correct? Which means that staff can place 20 record-level holds with a few clicks, but need to place 20 item-level holds individually. (I'd love to be told I'm wrong about this, though!) Emily Lamancusa (she/her) IT Specialist III Montgomery County Public Libraries (240) 777-0052 _____ From: David Cook <dcook@prosentient.com.au <mailto:dcook@prosentient.com.au>
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2023 7:29 PM To: 'Katrin Fischer' <katrin.fischer.83@web.de <mailto:katrin.fischer.83@web.de> >; koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org <mailto:koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> <koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org <mailto:koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> > Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Placing multiple record-level holds on a record Hi Katrin, But I think the intention of "Holds per record (count)" was to enable multiple item-level holds rather than multiple record-level holds? https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14695 I suppose one could argue though that record-level holds are ultimately still for items. but (depending on your rules) you can place 1+ record-level holds on a record with only 1 item (e.g. I have 10 holds on 1 record that has 1 item). If you have item-level holds, you can only ever place 1 item-level hold on that 1 item. It looks like a loophole/flaw to me. You can also place holds on items you already have checked out which seems weird. (I think it's probably due to the syspref AllowHoldsOnPatronsPossessions although I think the intention there was probably to allow holds on other items belonging to that record.) I haven't thoroughly tested it, but I think in theory you could monopolize an item for longer than a library intends if the circ rules were loose. I suppose I was just wondering if these are intentional or accidental behaviours. Holds are tricky though. What I might see as a bug might be a feature to someone else. David Cook Senior Software Engineer Prosentient Systems Suite 7.03 6a Glen St Milsons Point NSW 2061 Australia Office: 02 9212 0899 Online: 02 8005 0595 From: Koha-devel <koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org <mailto:koha-devel-bounces@lists.koha-community.org> > On Behalf Of Katrin Fischer Sent: Monday, 22 May 2023 3:19 PM To: koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org <mailto:koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Placing multiple record-level holds on a record hi David, it depends, there is definitely a feature to do that. If you can place multiple per record is defined in the circulation rules. If holds per record is 1, you should of course not be able to. It's been there for multiple versions now. Hope that helps, Katrin On 22.05.23 06:46, David Cook wrote: Hi all, I'm noticing in 22.11 that it's possible to place multiple record-level holds on a record. Do you think that's intentional? While I can understand having multiple item-level holds, having multiple record-level holds seems like a way to game the system. David Cook Senior Software Engineer Prosentient Systems Suite 7.03 6a Glen St Milsons Point NSW 2061 Australia Office: 02 9212 0899 Online: 02 8005 0595 _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org <mailto:Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : https://www.koha-community.org/ git : https://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/ <https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcg/Resources/Images/Cybersecurity-foote r.png> For more helpful Cybersecurity Resources, visit: https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/cybersecurity
participants (3)
-
David Cook -
Katrin Fischer -
Lamancusa, Emily