About IRC meeting & voting
Hello world, Sorry for missing yesterday IRC meeting, but after 10 days away from home, my family needed me (and it was 8PM here !) During the meeting, Owen said, as a joke: oleonard> 24-hour meeting, votes ever hour, day-end averages win. but i'm not sure it should be a joke: there is always someone sleeping or (wanting to) during the IRC meeting. So shouldn't we vote not during IRC meeting, but just confirm the vote, that is made during a period before the IRC meeting, on an other tool, like wiki, gdoc, yell +1 / 0 / -1 on the mailing list, a tool like http://www.ballotbin.com/ (untested, just found it in google) or whatever you want. I think that would also help more people being involved: attending an IRC meeting is, for some, a too high barrier (in France, there's a barrier with the language, for example). More vote, more involvement,... sounds a good deal isn't it ? -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08
On 14/06/2012 09:51, Paul Poulain wrote:
So shouldn't we vote not during IRC meeting, but just confirm the vote, that is made during a period before the IRC meeting, on an other tool, like wiki, gdoc, yell +1 / 0 / -1 on the mailing list, a tool like http://www.ballotbin.com/ (untested, just found it in google) or whatever you want. Hello,
I like the idea (not because he is my boss!). I discover few weeks ago http://voteer.com . There is no "authentication" but it is the simplest... HTH. Claire;
Good morning, schrieb Paul Poulain am 14.06.2012 09:51:
Hello world,
Sorry for missing yesterday IRC meeting, but after 10 days away from home, my family needed me (and it was 8PM here !)
During the meeting, Owen said, as a joke: oleonard> 24-hour meeting, votes ever hour, day-end averages win.
but i'm not sure it should be a joke: there is always someone sleeping or (wanting to) during the IRC meeting. So shouldn't we vote not during IRC meeting, but just confirm the vote, that is made during a period before the IRC meeting, on an other tool, like wiki, gdoc, yell +1 / 0 / -1 on the mailing list, a tool like http://www.ballotbin.com/ (untested, just found it in google) or whatever you want.
+1 for changing to a voting period. We are a community within a lot of different timezones, everybody should have the chance to vote. But please let us not outsource this to a service we don't control ourselves. ballotbin.com requires an account, voteer.com uses googleapis etc. I suppose there won't be millions of votes suddenly, so the wiki or mailinglist should be enough for now, or someone sets up a fancy, privacy unintrusive tool on a server we control. With the IRC meeting, you have people actually attending, talking to each other and have a discussion. I think that is very important, but we could have the discussions on the mailing list too I guess. I vote strongly against some clicky tool where you just make an 'X' somewhere and that's it. It would be nice to know who the people are that vote for something (and that they are real people and no bots).
I think that would also help more people being involved: attending an IRC meeting is, for some, a too high barrier (in France, there's a barrier with the language, for example).
To attend an IRC meeting, you have to open the webchat applet, say "hi", "#info $your_name" and then you can vote. I think it is easier than joining the mailing list or registering for the wiki, isn't it?
Le 14/06/2012 10:36, Mirko a écrit :
I think that would also help more people being involved: attending an IRC meeting is, for some, a too high barrier (in France, there's a barrier with the language, for example).
To attend an IRC meeting, you have to open the webchat applet, say "hi", "#info $your_name" and then you can vote. I think it is easier than joining the mailing list or registering for the wiki, isn't it?
I was not refering first to the tool itself, but to the language. We (BibLibre) would be willing to translate votes to french, and write to french mailing list with explanations in french even if the vote itself appear in english only. Something like : "ce vote concerne la décision blablabla. Les options de vote sont : choix A = comme ceci (ligne "do like this") choix B = comme cela (ligne "do like that") choix C = troisième option (ligne "third option") " In an IRC meeting (independantly from the time, which is another barrier), ppl have to speak english -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08
-- Marc Balmer micro systems, http://www.msys.ch/ Tel. +41 61 383 05 10, Fax +41 61 383 05 12 Am 14.06.2012 um 10:36 schrieb Mirko <5p4m@gmx.de>:
Good morning,
schrieb Paul Poulain am 14.06.2012 09:51:
Hello world,
Sorry for missing yesterday IRC meeting, but after 10 days away from home, my family needed me (and it was 8PM here !)
During the meeting, Owen said, as a joke: oleonard> 24-hour meeting, votes ever hour, day-end averages win.
but i'm not sure it should be a joke: there is always someone sleeping or (wanting to) during the IRC meeting. So shouldn't we vote not during IRC meeting, but just confirm the vote, that is made during a period before the IRC meeting, on an other tool, like wiki, gdoc, yell +1 / 0 / -1 on the mailing list, a tool like http://www.ballotbin.com/ (untested, just found it in google) or whatever you want.
+1 for changing to a voting period. We are a community within a lot of different timezones, everybody should have the chance to vote.
+1
But please let us not outsource this to a service we don't control ourselves. ballotbin.com requires an account, voteer.com uses googleapis etc. I suppose there won't be millions of votes suddenly, so the wiki or mailinglist should be enough for now, or someone sets up a fancy, privacy unintrusive tool on a server we control.
ack, very much ack, indeed.
With the IRC meeting, you have people actually attending, talking to each other and have a discussion. I think that is very important, but we could have the discussions on the mailing list too I guess.
I vote strongly against some clicky tool where you just make an 'X' somewhere and that's it. It would be nice to know who the people are that vote for something (and that they are real people and no bots).
ack, again.
I think that would also help more people being involved: attending an IRC meeting is, for some, a too high barrier (in France, there's a barrier with the language, for example).
To attend an IRC meeting, you have to open the webchat applet, say "hi", "#info $your_name" and then you can vote. I think it is easier than joining the mailing list or registering for the wiki, isn't it?
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
I have installed on my server LimeSurvey. It's open source and the tool we've been using for conference votes for the last few years. We can use that as a voting tool - I can add other admins to it. Or we can get LimeSurvey installed on the Koha-Community.org domain and use it there (either works for me). LimeSurvey allows for translation of survey questions and answers so it would be great for a worldwide community like ours. We actually used it many years ago to talk about the Koha Governance and someone at BibLibre translated all the questions for me to French to allow for easy access to more people. Nicole C. Engard
I think we've got two issues here to resolve here: 1. some kind of asynchronous voting mechanism. We need to be able to create arbitrarily many issues to vote on, with set opening and closing datetimes. We also need some kind of mechanism for preventing spam or other abuse. Personally, I think such a mechanism should be voter registration (hence 2). 2. A database of Koha community members. This would been to be VERY low entry, because we don't want to exclude anyone, and it should track only the most minimal information about folks (name and email), with an option to add more detail if a person chooses. One advantage of having this as a separate data pool is that we can access it over LDAP, Shibboleth or whatever other authentication means we like. We'd have something that we could test our authentication against, as well as a consistent username/password across all the authenticated resources we have. I think I've brought up the need for a People database in the past, and there are definitely privacy and accessibility concerns we've got to address. I was just reading how meritocracies can often turn into oligarchies ( http://boingboing.net/2012/06/13/meritocracies-become-oligarchi.html), and while I'm not saying that this necessarily applies to the Koha community, it's a pattern I think we should be aware of. Any kind of community users database would need to be done in such a way that new users can join it quickly and easily. Cheers, -Ian On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 7:47 AM, Nicole Engard <nengard@gmail.com> wrote:
I have installed on my server LimeSurvey. It's open source and the tool we've been using for conference votes for the last few years. We can use that as a voting tool - I can add other admins to it. Or we can get LimeSurvey installed on the Koha-Community.org domain and use it there (either works for me). LimeSurvey allows for translation of survey questions and answers so it would be great for a worldwide community like ours. We actually used it many years ago to talk about the Koha Governance and someone at BibLibre translated all the questions for me to French to allow for easy access to more people.
Nicole C. Engard _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
Salvete! I'm still mulling over the whole voting by proxy thing: I really don't like it, but I need to sort out and share precisely why. (Much of my reservations have to do with an erosion of Community and a ratcheting up of administrative duties.) That said, having LimeSurvey up and available to the community at large would just be so fantastic. I bugged Nicole to use hers to help me do a study months back and it was beautiful. It's so easy to use even I can do it, and it's quite powerful in terms of statistics. I love that it's FOSS to boot. It would be an incredible resource for Librarians. Cheers, Brooke
Le 14/06/2012 17:11, BWS Johnson a écrit :
That said, having LimeSurvey up and available to the community at large would just be so fantastic.
Nicole gave me a limeSurvey admin access. I'll use it when a discussion arise, and we will see if it fit our needs. If it does, we can open a survey.koha-community.org. But let's check if it fit our needs first. Thanks Nicole ! -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08
Salvete!
That said, having LimeSurvey up and available to the community at large would just be so fantastic. Nicole gave me a limeSurvey admin access. I'll use it when a discussion arise, and we will see if it fit our needs. If it does, we can open a survey.koha-community.org. But let's check if it fit our needs first.
Forwarding this on to the general list, since to my recollection, the context of discussion was larger than what would apply on the developer's listserv. Again, my gut feeling is that it is quite useful to have an asynchronous tool, but it is also important to me to have meetings. I'm no fan of meetings as a concept, but for this body with everyone so far from one another, meetings help build community. I have the same rationale for KohaCon. Distance synchronous meetings are good, but buying someone a pint is even better :D Cheers, Brooke
Le 04/07/2012 15:26, BWS Johnson a écrit :
I have the same rationale for KohaCon. Distance synchronous meetings are good, but buying someone a pint is even better :D As someone who attended all KohaCon, I won't object ;-)
-- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08
Good daytime everybody, Am 14.06.2012 09:51, schrieb Paul Poulain: (...)
So shouldn't we vote not during IRC meeting, but just confirm the vote, that is made during a period before the IRC meeting, on an other tool, like wiki, gdoc, yell +1 / 0 / -1 on the mailing list, a tool like http://www.ballotbin.com/ (untested, just found it in google) or whatever you want. (...)
+1 for Paul's great idea. Question: Shouldn't it be two voting periods, one before the meeting happens (with items that are already known) and one after the meeting (with items that show up during the discussion and need a decision within a short time frame)? Am 14.06.2012 10:36, schrieb Mirko: (...)
But please let us not outsource this to a service we don't control ourselves. ballotbin.com requires an account, voteer.com uses googleapis etc. I suppose there won't be millions of votes suddenly, so the wiki or mailinglist should be enough for now, or someone sets up a fancy, privacy unintrusive tool on a server we control. (...)
+1 for Mirko Marc
participants (8)
-
BWS Johnson -
Claire Hernandez -
Ian Walls -
Marc Balmer -
Marc Véron -
Mirko -
Nicole Engard -
Paul Poulain