[Koha-devel] Perl version requirement

Fri Jun 26 02:06:17 CEST 2020

Smart matches where used a while back but marked as experimental and we
removed their only uses.

5.10 was required for defined-or, and Julian suggests we need 5.14 because
of the use of /r.

PS is it me or the reply-to on this list puts the author of the previous
message? It should be the list itself.

El jue., 25 de junio de 2020 20:31, <dcook at prosentient.com.au> escribió:

> Those are good points. Personally, I’d like us to specify the Perl version
> minimum based on actual usage as well. I just wonder how best we determine
> what the minimum version should be (why 5.14?) and where we specify that.
>
>
>
> Should we be using “use 5.14.0” in plack.psgi for instance*? Or are we
> just thinking about specifying the minimum in terms of the Debian packages?
>
>
>
> I wonder if there is a reliable list of features by Perl version without
> reading through every delta listed at
> https://perldoc.perl.org/index-history.html. There is something at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_5_version_history.
>
>
>
> Looking at “Non-destructive substitution (s///r)”, I see that’s only used
> 2 (obvious) times and it’s in
> Koha/SearchEngine/Elasticsearch/QueryBuilder.pm.
>
>
>
> That said, that Wikipedia list doesn’t include the nuances of the smart
> match operator, so it doesn’t seem very comprehensive.
>
>
>
> I know Martin is interested in subroutine signatures but they look
> experimental even in 5.30.0 according to
> https://perldoc.perl.org/perlsub.html#Signatures.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> *https://perldoc.perl.org/functions/use.html
>
>
>
> David Cook
>
> Systems Librarian
>
> Prosentient Systems
>
> 72/330 Wattle St
>
> Ultimo, NSW 2007
>
> Australia
>
>
>
> Office: 02 9212 0899
>
> Online: 02 8005 0595
>
>
>
> *From:* Tomas Cohen Arazi <tomascohen at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, 26 June 2020 12:02 AM
> *To:* Kyle Hall <kyle.m.hall at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* David Cook <dcook at prosentient.com.au>; Koha Devel <
> koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Koha-devel] Perl version requirement
>
>
>
> I agree with Martin we should be requiring newer versions when we need
> them to (say) get better code or results.
>
> And we should be consistent. Right now the minimum should be 5.14 and we
> are not making it clear to the users.
>
>
>
> External library dependencies might be another reason to shift Perl
> versions. So all of that is in the mix. And we try to be conservative about
> this, specially when we pick external libraries and QA should consider this.
>
>
>
> El jue., 25 jun. 2020 a las 10:55, Kyle Hall (<kyle.m.hall at gmail.com>)
> escribió:
>
> I doubt we will need to worry about Perl 7 until it's available in Debian.
> It's essentially 5.32 with some better defaults ( no need to 'use strict'
> for example ). There will also be a migration path from Perl 5 to Perl 7 (
> but not from Perl 5 to Perl 8 ). Perl 5 is expected to have about 10 years
> of continued support.
>
>
>
> ---
>
> http://www.kylehall.info
> ByWater Solutions ( http://bywatersolutions.com )
> Meadville Public Library ( http://www.meadvillelibrary.org )
> Crawford County Federated Library System ( http://www.ccfls.org )
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 12:21 AM <dcook at prosentient.com.au> wrote:
>
> Just to add more fuel to the fire, have people heard about Perl 7? It was
> just announced yesterday.
>
> Unlike Perl 6 (now known as Raku), Perl 7 appears to be an actual
> backwards compatible successor to Perl 5:
> https://www.perl.com/article/announcing-perl-7/. If you don't want to
> read the link, "the bottom line" is "Perl 7 is v5.32 with different
> settings. Your code should work if it’s not a mess. Expect a user release
> within a year."
>
> --
>
> As for Perl 5.x versions, in the past, I've said let's stay at 5.10
> because of RHEL 6, but RHEL 6 is being retired November 30, 2020 (with an
> "Extended Life Cycle Support Add-On" available until June 30, 2024). I
> really don't think we should be hamstrung by RHEL 6 anymore. RHEL 7 comes
> with 5.16 and RHEL 7's "Software Collections" can be used with Perl 5.20
> and Perl 5.24, although I don't think that the RHEL 7 "Software
> Collections" can be used with the #!/usr/bin/perl shebang (which would be
> used in CGI and Plack's CGI emulation). That said, RHEL 8 is available now
> and it comes with Perl 5.26.
>
> Maybe we should just focus on Perl versions for supported Debian/Ubuntu
> OSes, and if people want to use other OSes, then they just need to upgrade
> to a newer version that supports a newer Perl.
>
> I think you can install Docker on RHEL 7, so that's another consideration
> for people running Koha on non-Debian/Ubuntu OSes. They can always just
> look at implementing a container-based solution, which leverages
> Debian/Ubuntu as the container OS.
>
> So yeah... let's pick the lowest Perl on our supported Debian/Ubuntu and
> have that be the minimum supported Perl.
>
> David Cook
> Systems Librarian
> Prosentient Systems
> 72/330 Wattle St
> Ultimo, NSW 2007
> Australia
>
> Office: 02 9212 0899
> Online: 02 8005 0595
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Koha-devel <koha-devel-bounces at lists.koha-community.org> On Behalf
> Of Paul A
> Sent: Thursday, 25 June 2020 9:00 AM
> To: koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org
> Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Perl version requirement
>
> On 2020-06-24 1:15 p.m., Julian Maurice wrote:
> > Ah yes, I forgot about Xenial.
> >
> > Not sure if it is still supported.
>
> Ubuntu 16.04.6 LTS (Xenial Xerus) was released February 28, 2019, has an
> "End of Standard Support" set at April 2021, and "End of Life" of April
> 2024 -- where some package enhancements are ensured up to the first of
> those dates, and *security* is ensured until the second, i.e nearly another
> four years from now.
>
> I obviously cannot speak for more than the organizations with which I am
> involved, but basically we are all keeping c++, php and perl based code on
> 16.04 LTS using Apache, and have moved only python coding to 18.04.
> However, we do use Nginx on 18.04 as a front end, proxying to the 16.04
> back ends. We are beginning to look at 20.04, but first impressions of the
> transition are slightly painful.
>
> As Mark mentions below, Xenial uses Perl 5.22.1-9ubuntu0.6. I understand
> that the "1-9ubuntu0.6" denotes some fifty patches and fixes on top of
> "basic 5.22" but not amounting to 5.24. Just for completeness, 18.04 uses
> perl 5.26, and 20.04 comes with perl 5.30.  However, from what I have
> heard, the perl 5 branch has very few deprecated, let alone removed,
> details, so backwards compatibility is on a fairly firm footing. In fact, a
> quick look at 5.22 and 5.26 show very much the same patches, but of course
> this may not apply to non-core modules.
>
> Best -- Paul
>
>
>
> The thing is, depending on where you
> > look, you find different informations:
> >
> > In the latest release notes:
> >
> > - 20.05.01 says that the recommended environments are Debian stretch,
> > Debian buster or Ubuntu bionic, and requires Perl 5.10
> > - 19.11.07 says that the recommended environments are Debian jessie,
> > Debian stretch, Debian buster or Ubuntu bionic and requires Perl 5.10
> > - 19.05.12 says the the recommended environements are Debian stretch
> > or Ubuntu bionic, and requires Perl 5.24 (it's strange that an older
> > version of Koha require a newer version of Perl)
> >
> > On Jenkins, there is a "supported" tab that includes Ubuntu xenial,
> > bionic and focal, and Debian jessie, stretch and buster.
> >
> > So it is not very clear.
> > Maybe we can include that information in Koha's source (in README ?)
> > and make it the "single source of truth" ?
> >
> > Le 24/06/2020 à 18:40, Mark Tompsett a écrit :
> >> Greetings,
> >>
> >> I apologize if this is a dumb question, but do we support Xenial
> >> (Ubuntu 16.04) still? If so, then Julian Maurice's suggestion is a
> >> little over. Xenial has Perl 5.22 in it. If we don't support Xenial,
> >> then +1 for his suggestion of 5.24 as the Perl version to use.
> >>
> >> GPML,
> >> Mark Tompsett
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Koha-devel mailing list
> >> Koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org
> >> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> >> website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git :
> >> http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
> >>
> >
>
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>
>
> --
>
> Tomás Cohen Arazi
>
> Theke Solutions (http://theke.io)
> ✆ +54 9351 3513384
> GPG: B2F3C15F
>
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