[Bug 24376] New: Wording of Fine Returned is confusing
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24376 Bug ID: 24376 Summary: Wording of Fine Returned is confusing Change sponsored?: --- Product: Koha Version: master Hardware: All OS: All Status: NEW Severity: enhancement Priority: P5 - low Component: Fines and fees Assignee: koha-bugs@lists.koha-community.org Reporter: kelly@bywatersolutions.com QA Contact: testopia@bugs.koha-community.org With 19.05 Koha Fines were given new descriptions. We moved away from F and FU fines to Fines Accruing and Fine Returned. However, libraries find that the Fine Returned confusing when the item has been renewed and / or lost. Example: If an item has been lost, the fine will stop accruing and therefore get the description of Fine Returned. However the item is not returned but the fine has, in essence, stop accruing. Or if an item has been overdue, then renewed. The first fine will have stopped accruing and be given a Fine Returned when really the item has been renewed and could potentially get more fines. Recommendations of the wording could be "Fine Final" instead of "Fine Returned" -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24376 karen.fellows@citruslibraries.org changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |karen.fellows@citruslibrari | |es.org --- Comment #1 from karen.fellows@citruslibraries.org --- This is confusing for our library staff since we are a library that doesn't charge fines. We only bill when an item is lost or damaged. When we migrated to Koha, our old bills were brought over as migrated fines from our previous system and they now have an account type of Fine (Returned) however the items were not returned--they are all long lost. We would like the wording changed as Kelly described. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24376 Katrin Fischer <katrin.fischer@bsz-bw.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |katrin.fischer@bsz-bw.de --- Comment #2 from Katrin Fischer <katrin.fischer@bsz-bw.de> --- When changing please keep capitalization rules in mind. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24376 amanda.jones@williamsoncounty-tn.gov changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |amanda.jones@williamsoncoun | |ty-tn.gov --- Comment #3 from amanda.jones@williamsoncounty-tn.gov --- We also take issue with the wording (Returned). We prefer the to replace it with (Outstanding) as Final may not be the case if that item is renewed and then becomes late again. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24376 Katrin Fischer <katrin.fischer@bsz-bw.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |martin.renvoize@ptfs-europe | |.com --- Comment #4 from Katrin Fischer <katrin.fischer@bsz-bw.de> --- (In reply to amanda.jones from comment #3)
We also take issue with the wording (Returned). We prefer the to replace it with (Outstanding) as Final may not be the case if that item is renewed and then becomes late again.
Hi Amanda, if the item is renewed and becomes overdue again, this will create a new line in the accounting table (fine accrueing). But I think that's another reason why returned might not be a good pick here - if it's also used for renewals? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24376 --- Comment #5 from amanda.jones@williamsoncounty-tn.gov --- Patrons can also see this wording on the OPAC. They might be thrown off by one fine stating FINAL then seeing that fine begin to accrue again. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24376 --- Comment #6 from Katrin Fischer <katrin.fischer@bsz-bw.de> --- I agree about final not being ideal. Not being a native speaker probably doesn't help much here... but is the opposite of an accrueing fine? Static? Frozen? just: Fine Unpaid? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24376 Martin Renvoize <martin.renvoize@ptfs-europe.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Blocks| |14825 Referenced Bugs: https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14825 [Bug 14825] Accounts Rewrite Omnibus -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes. You are the assignee for the bug.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24376 Caroline Cyr La Rose <caroline.cyr-la-rose@inlibro.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |caroline.cyr-la-rose@inlibr | |o.com --- Comment #7 from Caroline Cyr La Rose <caroline.cyr-la-rose@inlibro.com> --- Maybe "Fixed fine"? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24376 Andreas Hedström Mace <andreas.hedstrom.mace@sub.su.se> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |andreas.hedstrom.mace@sub.s | |u.se --- Comment #8 from Andreas Hedström Mace <andreas.hedstrom.mace@sub.su.se> --- I would go with the simplest solution: "Fine" and "Fine Accruing". -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24376 --- Comment #9 from Martin Renvoize <martin.renvoize@ptfs-europe.com> --- I took a look at the code here and found that the renewal case at least 'should' use 'RENEWED' as it's status.. but it appears that AddRenewal is seldom called for renewals, instead, AddIssue is called again and we end up with the 'RETURNED' status. I'm not sure what the worth of having such detailed status's for OVERDUE fines is if I'm honest at this point.. We should be focusing on the state of the fine more than the state of the circulation in these fields and so I would propose 'ACRUING' and 'FIXED' as the status's for OVERDUE's.. (along with 'FORGIVEN' and 'VOID' which are further account states via the staff client actions). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24376 --- Comment #10 from Martin Renvoize <martin.renvoize@ptfs-europe.com> --- To clarify that a little.. Existing states: [%- CASE 'UNRETURNED' -%]<span> (Accruing)</span> # Set when fine is first created and still accruing [%- CASE 'RETURNED' -%]<span> (Returned)</span> # Set in C4::Circulation::AddReturn (can be called via AddIssue) [%- CASE 'RENEWED' -%]<span> (Renewed)</span> # Set in C4::Circulation::AddRenewal (can be called via AddIssue, but seldom is) [%- CASE 'REPLACED' -%]<span> (Replaced)</span> # [%- CASE 'REFUNDED' -%]<span> (Refunded)</span> # [%- CASE 'FORGIVEN' -%]<span> (Forgiven)</span> # Inside _FixOverduesOnReturn, if 'exemptfine' is true [%- CASE 'VOID' -%]<span> (Voided)</span> # [%- CASE 'LOST' -%]<span> (Lost)</span> # Set in C4::Circulation::LostItem (if WhenLostForgiveFine is disabled) I think it would make sense to reduce that list to `ACCRUING` and `FIXED` for overdues that are unpaid.. and then allow for 'FORGIVEN', 'VOID', and 'PAID' to signify 'payment' actions on the lines. This may have a knock on effect with our WhenLostForgiveFine handling if the item is subsequently found and returned.. I believe there's another bug already discussing that case however. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24376 Martin Renvoize <martin.renvoize@ptfs-europe.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- See Also| |https://bugs.koha-community | |.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi | |?id=23091 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes.
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