https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27340 Martin Renvoize <martin.renvoize@ptfs-europe.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |nicolas.legrand@bulac.fr -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27340 Donna <bwsdonna@gmail.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |bwsdonna@gmail.com --- Comment #3 from Donna <bwsdonna@gmail.com> --- Some of our partners would love to see desks as part of the pickup location. For instance, in a library there may be a main circ desk, a children's desk on another floor, and a drive up window. Or, self-serve holds shelves and a drive up window. If a patron wants to pick up their items at the drive up window, it would be great to have that as a "desk" instead of relying on the patron and staff adding/reading holds notes. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27340 --- Comment #4 from Katrin Fischer <katrin.fischer@bsz-bw.de> --- (In reply to Donna from comment #3)

Some of our partners would love to see desks as part of the pickup location. For instance, in a library there may be a main circ desk, a children's desk on another floor, and a drive up window. Or, self-serve holds shelves and a drive up window. If a patron wants to pick up their items at the drive up window, it would be great to have that as a "desk" instead of relying on the patron and staff adding/reading holds notes.

Hi Donna, as this is more a bug about architecture, you might want to file separate bugs for how the desks should present in the GUI better. I think at the moment the desk will only be assigned when a hold is triggered (for the desk you are checking things in). I was thinking it would be nice if the user could pick the desk on the hold request form - but should we move this to a new bug? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27340 Tomás Cohen Arazi <tomascohen@gmail.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |tomascohen@gmail.com --- Comment #5 from Tomás Cohen Arazi <tomascohen@gmail.com> --- (In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #4)

(In reply to Donna from comment #3)

...

Some of our partners would love to see desks as part of the pickup location. For instance, in a library there may be a main circ desk, a children's desk on another floor, and a drive up window. Or, self-serve holds shelves and a drive up window. If a patron wants to pick up their items at the drive up window, it would be great to have that as a "desk" instead of relying on the patron and staff adding/reading holds notes.

Hi Donna, as this is more a bug about architecture, you might want to file separate bugs for how the desks should present in the GUI better. I think at the moment the desk will only be assigned when a hold is triggered (for the desk you are checking things in). I was thinking it would be nice if the user could pick the desk on the hold request form - but should we move this to a new bug?

I think this is the right place to discuss if this addition would be useful. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27340 --- Comment #7 from Tomás Cohen Arazi <tomascohen@gmail.com> --- (In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #6)

Hm, not sure if there is misunderstanding or not.

You can already make the desk part of the hold request, but it only happens automatically when checking it in for pick-up. I think what Donna and I would like is be able to assign the desk in other worksflow steps: when placing the hold in the OPAC, when placing the hold in the staff interface, when editing the hold in the staff interface... so also at the beginning not the end.

I understood this was mostly about creating a new module and assumed we should discuss workflow separately. I think the need for the module might already be there without additions to the existing feature.

I found the need for a specific class for representing pickup locations when making holds pickup locations dropdown API-driven. I didn't go as far as I would loved because of the little feedback I got at that time. I'm happy to discuss possible use cases now there's interest :-D I believe libraries should be able to define whatever they want to call their pickup locations, for example. So as a starting point, I'd say a pickup location should contain the following columns: pickup_location_id (PK) library_id desk_id description public_description That way, defined pickup locations will be displayed to end users. The 'branches.pickup_location' flag could be migrated to entries in this table. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27340 --- Comment #8 from Katrin Fischer <katrin.fischer@bsz-bw.de> --- IIUC this would change what we understand as a pick-up location. Currently we understand the pick-up location as the library the item is waiting at. We'd like to add the desk to this as another optional factor.

pickup_location_id (PK) library_id desk_id description public_description

My feeling is that we don't need a new table here as we already have all the information in "desks", especially since they are already tied to a library. I don't feel like we need to be able to reuse desks at different libraries, the current implementation defining them as a "place" within a library feels correct and sufficient. I am not sure a separate description is strictly needed either - we could imagine 2 possible implementations in the interface: * Have 2 separate pull-downs: select the library first, then see a list of available desks for it. * Have a combined pull-down of library + desk name. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27340 --- Comment #10 from Katrin Fischer <katrin.fischer@bsz-bw.de> --- (In reply to Tomás Cohen Arazi from comment #9)

(In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #8)

...

IIUC this would change what we understand as a pick-up location. Currently we understand the pick-up location as the library the item is waiting at. We'd like to add the desk to this as another optional factor.

...

pickup_location_id (PK) library_id desk_id description public_description

My feeling is that we don't need a new table here as we already have all the information in "desks", especially since they are already tied to a library. I don't feel like we need to be able to reuse desks at different libraries, the current implementation defining them as a "place" within a library feels correct and sufficient.

We need a table in which each row represents each allowed combination. Not all combinations are necessarily valid pickup locations.

I think that's where we might misunderstand each other. Which combinations are you referring to? Library A - Desk A is a fixed combination. Library B - Desk A would be invalid. But there is a need to have desks optional, so maybe: Library A Library B - Desk A Library B - Desk B I am still confused by the need for a new table unless we completely restructure, but maybe that is the plan? Option A: * Remove the "is pick-up location" from the library configuration page (seems logical to not have multiple spots to maintain this information) * Add the new table * Possible problems: migration for existing libraries, additional setup requirements for making holds functional, possible conflicts with pickup-location related settings in circulation conditions (needs a closer look) * Possible advantages: It might be easier to implement something like "certain item types can only be picked up at certain desks" later on? Option B: * Keep checkbox "is pick-up location" on library configuration page * Add checkbox "available for pick-up" to desks * Possible problems: might limit future enhancements... (maybe I am getting there)

...

I am not sure a separate description is strictly needed either - we could imagine 2 possible implementations in the interface:

* Have 2 separate pull-downs: select the library first, then see a list of available desks for it. * Have a combined pull-down of library + desk name.

This is overcomplicating it, actually. UI-wise it would be clearer if we just provided a 'Pickup location' pull down. And in some cases you just wouldn't specify a description and it will fall back to the library or 'Library name (desk)'.

OK, it might depend on the numbers of options. Adding desks could make the list significantly longer for consortia, but we can still group by library with your data model for UI if needed.

On the other hand, whenever we add endpoints for things that are not really mapped to a table with other linked tables, we end up generating weird controller code that is buggy and too complex :-D

Happy to keep the discussion open, I'm not really attached to any solution. I just think our current approach to pickup locations is too limited on the API front.

I have no idea about the API front, but it might be limiting our workflows too :) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27340 --- Comment #12 from Katrin Fischer <katrin.fischer@bsz-bw.de> --- I agree, the migration should not be an issue right now, especially before we add more 'desks' functionality. Another complication I expect: Patrons might only be able to choose the library pick-up location, while staff can assign desks. This would fit the current workflow where a desk can only be assigned on checkin of an on hold item. Expectation: libraries might require different behavior for OPAC and staff interface: Patron can't select a desk, only the library. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27340 Martin Renvoize <martin.renvoize@ptfs-europe.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Assignee|martin.renvoize@ptfs-europe |tomascohen@gmail.com |.com | -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27340 --- Comment #15 from Katrin Fischer <katrin.fischer@bsz-bw.de> --- (In reply to Marcel de Rooy from comment #14)

Reading this a bit late after the discussion..

I think the current concept of desk and pickup_location is confusing. Pickup location currently is just a subset of branches. A branch/pickup_location may have multiple desks. As I understand, there is a need for multiple pickup locations per branch.

The recent desks feature is very limited though. It only records a checkin in a confirmed hold. I would have expected it too in the issue for instance. (At which desk was the item checked in and checked out?) The patron does only see a reference to a desk on opac-user for waiting holds.

I found this description in kohastructure: `desk_id` int(11) DEFAULT NULL COMMENT 'foreign key from the desks table defining which desk the patron should pick this hold up at', So I am wondering why we do not inform the patron in the HOLD notice about that desk? (Kind of unfinished development?) Note that it looks like desk actually is a pickup location here?

I think the development base is good, but yes, there are definitely missing features to make it more useful. I think in at least some use cases, we'd also like the patrons to be able to pick the desks for pick-up. But at least they should be informed on where the item is waiting exactly.

And adding yet another use case: I would need a pickup location for patron type A (employees) within branch X and a pickup location for patron type B (external patrons) within X. This second pickup location does not make much sense as a separate branch. So, I could switch to 'desks'. But limiting desks is far out of reach?

What do you mean with limiting desks - a limit by patron category? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.