Vote NOW for the Koha Community Website Theme
Dear Koha Community, You may now vote for the Koha Community Website Theme here: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=cXmKffvDeO7c48PVcFB4BA_3d_3d Please submit your votes by May 1, 2008, 11:59pm PDT (-0800). The winner will be announced on May 2, 2008 As stated in the poll/survey, you are reviewing the visual impact and graphical elements of the theme. Overall site structure and actual content was created in order for the themes to have something to design against. You can view each of the themes at: http://contest.hanning.name/skin1 http://contest.hanning.name/skin2 http://contest.hanning.name/skin3 If you have any problems viewing the themes, please contact Darci Hanning at darci.hanning@gmail.com with "Koha Theme Contest" in the Subject: line. If you have problems with the voting or survey, please contact Joshua Ferraro at jmf@liblime.com Cheers! Darci Hanning
"Darci Hanning" <darci.hanning@gmail.com> wrote:
You may now vote for the Koha Community Website Theme here: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=cXmKffvDeO7c48PVcFB4BA_3d_3d
surveymonkey requires Javascript, graphics cookies and more. Please move the vote to a site which everyone can use. Can't Plone run open votes? Could we score the templates from their own demo pages? The ballot looks very strange. What method is being used for this vote? What happens if there's not a clear winner? I daren't vote because I don't understand how my vote will be used. Many of the URLs on the demo sites appear to be different to the live site. Are they template problems or a Plone configuration problem which will be corrected before launch? http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI Finally, all sites appear to be semi-translated. Does that cause any other problems which might influence votes? Why was the call-for-votes draft not previewed on koha-devel? I'm sure someone could have helped fix these before the vote started. Regards, -- MJ Ray (slef) Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ (Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:27 AM, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:
"Darci Hanning" <darci.hanning@gmail.com> wrote:
You may now vote for the Koha Community Website Theme here: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=cXmKffvDeO7c48PVcFB4BA_3d_3d
surveymonkey requires Javascript, graphics cookies and more. Please move the vote to a site which everyone can use. Can't Plone run open votes? Could we score the templates from their own demo pages? Are you volunteering to set up a plone site that has a voting product installed, because none of us have time :-).
The ballot looks very strange. What method is being used for this vote? What happens if there's not a clear winner? I daren't vote because I don't understand how my vote will be used. This is the first time we've done an official Koha community vote for anything, so we're all just learning here. What do you suggest we do if there isn't a clear winner?
Many of the URLs on the demo sites appear to be different to the live site. Are they template problems or a Plone configuration problem which will be corrected before launch? http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI The way I'd suggest we handle this is with mod_rewrite, so that the old pages redirect to the new content.
Finally, all sites appear to be semi-translated. Does that cause any other problems which might influence votes? Not sure, what kinds of problems do you anticipate?
Why was the call-for-votes draft not previewed on koha-devel? I'm sure someone could have helped fix these before the vote started. Good idea, next time we'll do that.
Cheers, -- Joshua Ferraro SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE CEO migration, training, maintenance, support LibLime Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS jmf@liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS
"Joshua Ferraro" <jmf@liblime.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:27 AM, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote: Please
move the vote to a site which everyone can use. Can't Plone run open votes? Could we score the templates from their own demo pages? Are you volunteering to set up a plone site that has a voting product installed, because none of us have time :-).
I dislike Plone (or rather, I dislike Zope), have previously decided against using it and have migrated sites at work away from it, so I don't have a server running it now. Give me the necessary access to the plone server(s) used and I'll install and configure a voting product on it.
The ballot looks very strange. What method is being used for this vote? What happens if there's not a clear winner? I daren't vote because I don't understand how my vote will be used. This is the first time we've done an official Koha community vote for anything, so we're all just learning here. What do you suggest we do if there isn't a clear winner?
This isn't the first time we've held a vote. The most recent one was March 2007, asking how soon people wanted 3.0. The result was 1 vote for quick-bugfix-and-release, 9 votes for within-3-months, and 7 votes for when-it's-ready. I think I remember some votes before that. Were none official? As to what happens if we don't get a clear winner, I'm reminded of my dean at university who said that one of the most difficult things was having scientists go to him, asking for help in salvaging some results from their badly-designed experiments, and he had to tell them that the only way of answering their original question was to start again with a better design. The experiments could still tell them something about the question, often enough to get some paper in some obscure journal, but not the answers they wanted. So... If there isn't a clear winner, we should let all three improve their designs in light of the feedback and then use Single Transferable Vote to choose between them.
Many of the URLs on the demo sites appear to be different to the live site. Are they template problems or a Plone configuration problem which will be corrected before launch? http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI The way I'd suggest we handle this is with mod_rewrite, so that the old pages redirect to the new content.
Can we move the new content to the currect URLs?
Finally, all sites appear to be semi-translated. Does that cause any other problems which might influence votes? Not sure, what kinds of problems do you anticipate?
I don't know if the bizarre esperan-franglais I see means I'm not seeing the full effect of the template.
Why was the call-for-votes draft not previewed on koha-devel? I'm sure someone could have helped fix these before the vote started. Good idea, next time we'll do that.
Next time? How soon are we replacing the website again? Why didn't it happen this time? Puzzled, -- MJ Ray (slef) Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ (Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237
Darci Hanning a écrit :
Dear Koha Community,
You may now vote for the Koha Community Website Theme here:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=cXmKffvDeO7c48PVcFB4BA_3d_3d
Hello, There are 3 themes, and/but all votes are ranked between 1 and 10. Does it mean we can give a 10 to all the themes if we like them (or 1 if we dislike them all) ? or 1/5/10, or 1, 2, 3. I think it's worth to explain a little bit more things. Personnaly, I don't know what to vote... I also think it's worth adding the previous theme. Just in case someone think it's better than the 3 new ones. I also think the number of options to vote are a little bit complex, and may lower the number of ppl that will answer the poll. -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : 04 91 31 45 19
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 5:09 AM, Paul POULAIN <paul.poulain@free.fr> wrote:
Darci Hanning a écrit :
Dear Koha Community,
You may now vote for the Koha Community Website Theme here:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=cXmKffvDeO7c48PVcFB4BA_3d_3d
Hello,
There are 3 themes, and/but all votes are ranked between 1 and 10.
Does it mean we can give a 10 to all the themes if we like them (or 1 if we dislike them all) ? or 1/5/10, or 1, 2, 3. The idea is to rank your favorite on a scale of 1-10 or 1-5. If you like two themes the same, you can rank them the same.
I think it's worth to explain a little bit more things. Personally, I don't know what to vote... Hope that helps.
I also think it's worth adding the previous theme. Just in case someone think it's better than the 3 new ones. The previous theme isn't a plone theme, so it wouldn't make much sense to add it to me ...
I also think the number of options to vote are a little bit complex, and may lower the number of ppl that will answer the poll. We've had about 20 people vote thusfar.
Cheers, -- Joshua Ferraro SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE CEO migration, training, maintenance, support LibLime Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS jmf@liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS
Joshua Ferraro a écrit :
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 5:09 AM, Paul POULAIN <paul.poulain@free.fr> wrote:
Darci Hanning a écrit :
Dear Koha Community,
You may now vote for the Koha Community Website Theme here:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=cXmKffvDeO7c48PVcFB4BA_3d_3d
Hello,
There are 3 themes, and/but all votes are ranked between 1 and 10.
Does it mean we can give a 10 to all the themes if we like them (or 1 if we dislike them all) ? or 1/5/10, or 1, 2, 3. The idea is to rank your favorite on a scale of 1-10 or 1-5. If you like two themes the same, you can rank them the same.
and, at the end, the theme that will get the best rank will be selected ? Mathematically, there's something strange : Suppose I rank the themes 2, 3, 5. Two of us doing the same. someone else then vote "10, 0, 1" Results : 14 points for #1, 11 for #3 => #1 is choosen. Although we are 2 that prefer #3 and only one that prefer #1. How will we handle results saying : color scheme (question 1) #1 wins, and continuity (question 2) #3 wins. who will win in this case ? What happends, if the average ranking is poor for all themes ? We try a new contest ? (sorry to imagine the worst case) wikipedia (at least fr.wikipedia) has lot of pages about voting system (who says "trolling" pages ?). None of them is perfect (US have choosen a president with less ppl voting for him than for his opponent if I don't mind ;-) ). so I don't want this system to be changed, I just suggest the system to be a little bit more explained. -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : 04 91 31 45 19
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:03 AM, Paul POULAIN <paul.poulain@free.fr> wrote:
Joshua Ferraro a écrit :
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 5:09 AM, Paul POULAIN <paul.poulain@free.fr> wrote:
Darci Hanning a écrit :
Dear Koha Community,
You may now vote for the Koha Community Website Theme here:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=cXmKffvDeO7c48PVcFB4BA_3d_3d
Hello,
There are 3 themes, and/but all votes are ranked between 1 and 10.
Does it mean we can give a 10 to all the themes if we like them (or 1 if we dislike them all) ? or 1/5/10, or 1, 2, 3.
The idea is to rank your favorite on a scale of 1-10 or 1-5. If you like two themes the same, you can rank them the same.
and, at the end, the theme that will get the best rank will be selected ? Mathematically, there's something strange : Suppose I rank the themes 2, 3, 5. Two of us doing the same.
someone else then vote "10, 0, 1" Results : 14 points for #1, 11 for #3 => #1 is choosen. Although we are 2 that prefer #3 and only one that prefer #1.
How will we handle results saying : color scheme (question 1) #1 wins, and continuity (question 2) #3 wins. who will win in this case ?
What happends, if the average ranking is poor for all themes ? We try a new contest ? (sorry to imagine the worst case)
wikipedia (at least fr.wikipedia) has lot of pages about voting system (who says "trolling" pages ?). None of them is perfect (US have choosen a president with less ppl voting for him than for his opponent if I don't mind ;-) ). so I don't want this system to be changed, I just suggest the system to be a little bit more explained. Yep, I've a feeling any method we chose would have elicited questions about methodology. The trick seems to be to send a sample out first, and
collect the feedback before sending the final copy out, which would have been nice.
Unfortunately, the folks organizing this site, myself included, didn't have much time to spend on it, and the benefits of getting it done and out there for folks to use necessitate that we do our best to move things along quickly. Some people in this community have been waiting for a multi-lingual site for literally YEARS! Also, our current website update process is pretty non-transparent -- there are a lot of people in our community who would love to contribute content but who don't have a way to do that meaningfully. I don't have good answers for you Paul, on any of those points. I guess I am hoping the results will give us a clear indication of a winner. If they don't, we may have to look at these issues as a group. Cheers, -- Joshua Ferraro SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE CEO migration, training, maintenance, support LibLime Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS jmf@liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS
"Joshua Ferraro" <jmf@liblime.com> wrote: [...]
Unfortunately, the folks organizing this site, myself included, didn't have much time to spend on it, and the benefits of getting it done and out there for folks to use necessitate that we do our best to move things along quickly. Some people in this community have been waiting for a multi-lingual site for literally YEARS! Also, our current website update process is pretty non-transparent -- there are a lot of people in our community who would love to contribute content but who don't have a way to do that meaningfully.
To update the current website, log in to kea on koha2, pick a file, edit it in the browser, then click to notify the webmaster (Russel IIRC) that there's an update waiting. If you need a login, ask Russel - or maybe the people at Katipo can set them up too. Russel's been pretty helpful to me (including support by mobile phone at least once!) although a bit slow to approve my latest edit (*nudge*) but I guess Koha isn't part of his day job now. I don't understand why the multi-lingual site hasn't happened yet. I thought Katipo were fairly familiar with the problems of multilingual sites, given where Koha came from. The main problem looks to me like kea requires Javascript and all that, but many Plone sites seem as bad for that - or will this be the big improvement which wins me over? So what does "pretty non-transparent" mean? Not at LibLime? To me, koha2 seems more transparent than this new Plone site's development! Regards, -- MJ Ray (slef) Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ (Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237
"Joshua Ferraro" <jmf@liblime.com> wrote: [...]
Unfortunately, the folks organizing this site, myself included, didn't have much time to spend on it, and the benefits of getting it done and out there for folks to use necessitate that we do our best to move things along quickly. Some people in this community have been waiting for a multi-lingual site for literally YEARS! Also, our current website update process is pretty non-transparent -- there are a lot of people in our community who would love to contribute content but who don't have a way to do that meaningfully.
To update the current website, log in to kea on koha2, pick a file, edit it in the browser, then click to notify the webmaster (Russel IIRC) that there's an update waiting. If you need a login, ask Russel - or maybe the people at Katipo can set them up too. Russel's been pretty helpful to me (including support by mobile phone at least once!) although a bit slow to approve my latest edit (*nudge*) but I guess Koha isn't part of his day job now.
I don't understand why the multi-lingual site hasn't happened yet. I thought Katipo were fairly familiar with the problems of multilingual sites, given where Koha came from. The main problem looks to me like kea requires Javascript and all that, but many Plone sites seem as bad for that - or will this be the big improvement which wins me over? I hope it will be. There are lots more options for adding content to Plone, and the multi-lingual capabilities are very strong; in particular, the interface for translation makes it very easy for folks to translate content into
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 1:48 PM, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote: their language.
So what does "pretty non-transparent" mean? Not at LibLime? Not sure what you're implying here, and whether I should be offended by it :-)
To me, koha2 seems more transparent than this new Plone site's development! Ahem ... the process you describe requires that you know someone, or that you post a list question asking how to add or translate content on the website. In the new Plone-based model, you just sign up and away you go. For some content we might want to have it moderated, but in general, I vote that we keep it as wiki-style as possible.
Transparency of process and making it easy for folks to translate koha are the two major reasons I'm in favor of Plone. For what it's worth, I'd like to be able to offer the same level of transparency for the translate.koha.org site, so that instead of having to email koha-translate every time someone wants a new translation to be added, someone could just sign up, add their language, and away they go. I just haven't had a chance to work on that under Kartouche, nor have I found any tools that support that kind of workflow. Cheers, -- Joshua Ferraro SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE CEO migration, training, maintenance, support LibLime Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS jmf@liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS
For what it's worth, 33 folks have voted thusfar. Josh On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:14 PM, Joshua Ferraro <jmf@liblime.com> wrote:
"Joshua Ferraro" <jmf@liblime.com> wrote: [...]
Unfortunately, the folks organizing this site, myself included, didn't have much time to spend on it, and the benefits of getting it done and out there for folks to use necessitate that we do our best to move things along quickly. Some people in this community have been waiting for a multi-lingual site for literally YEARS! Also, our current website update process is pretty non-transparent -- there are a lot of people in our community who would love to contribute content but who don't have a way to do that meaningfully.
To update the current website, log in to kea on koha2, pick a file, edit it in the browser, then click to notify the webmaster (Russel IIRC) that there's an update waiting. If you need a login, ask Russel - or maybe the people at Katipo can set them up too. Russel's been pretty helpful to me (including support by mobile phone at least once!) although a bit slow to approve my latest edit (*nudge*) but I guess Koha isn't part of his day job now.
I don't understand why the multi-lingual site hasn't happened yet. I thought Katipo were fairly familiar with the problems of multilingual sites, given where Koha came from. The main problem looks to me like kea requires Javascript and all that, but many Plone sites seem as bad for that - or will this be the big improvement which wins me over? I hope it will be. There are lots more options for adding content to Plone, and the multi-lingual capabilities are very strong; in particular, the interface for translation makes it very easy for folks to translate content into
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 1:48 PM, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote: their language.
So what does "pretty non-transparent" mean? Not at LibLime? Not sure what you're implying here, and whether I should be offended by it :-)
To me, koha2 seems more transparent than this new Plone site's development! Ahem ... the process you describe requires that you know someone, or that you post a list question asking how to add or translate content on the website. In the new Plone-based model, you just sign up and away you go. For some content we might want to have it moderated, but in general, I vote that we keep it as wiki-style as possible.
Transparency of process and making it easy for folks to translate koha are the two major reasons I'm in favor of Plone.
For what it's worth, I'd like to be able to offer the same level of transparency for the translate.koha.org site, so that instead of having to email koha-translate every time someone wants a new translation to be added, someone could just sign up, add their language, and away they go. I just haven't had a chance to work on that under Kartouche, nor have I found any tools that support that kind of workflow.
Cheers,
-- Joshua Ferraro SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE CEO migration, training, maintenance, support LibLime Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS jmf@liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS
-- Joshua Ferraro SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE CEO migration, training, maintenance, support LibLime Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS jmf@liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS
"Joshua Ferraro" <jmf@liblime.com> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 1:48 PM, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:
To update the current website, log in to kea on koha2, pick a file, edit it in the browser, then click to notify the webmaster (Russel IIRC) that there's an update waiting. If you need a login, ask Russel [...] So what does "pretty non-transparent" mean? Not at LibLime? Not sure what you're implying here, and whether I should be offended by it :-)
Well, that makes two of us. I don't know what "pretty non-transparent" means and you've ignored a direct question about it. Why all the evasion recently?
To me, koha2 seems more transparent than this new Plone site's development! Ahem ... the process you describe requires that you know someone, or that you post a list question asking how to add or translate content on the website. In the new Plone-based model, you just sign up and away you go. For some content we might want to have it moderated, but in general, I vote that we keep it as wiki-style as possible.
I just signed up on skin3 and there's no way to edit anything. Where should I be looking? Oh look! I'm posting a list question asking how to add or translate content on the website... so it's exactly as transparent as before. The main difference is that this time, no-one, except maybe possibly at LibLime, knows the people. Can we put the Plone site into the long grass until after 3.0 is out and we've a few deployments under our belt, please? You say you've not got time to work on it or run a normal vote, we've not had time to convert the current design, I doubt many people have got time to learn how to edit Plone just now and kea isn't that much worse. Regards, -- MJ Ray (slef) Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ (Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237
On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 3:28 AM, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:
"Joshua Ferraro" <jmf@liblime.com> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 1:48 PM, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:
To update the current website, log in to kea on koha2, pick a file, edit it in the browser, then click to notify the webmaster (Russel IIRC) that there's an update waiting. If you need a login, ask Russel [...]
So what does "pretty non-transparent" mean? Not at LibLime? Not sure what you're implying here, and whether I should be offended by it :-)
Well, that makes two of us. I don't know what "pretty non-transparent" means and you've ignored a direct question about it. Why all the evasion recently?
To me, koha2 seems more transparent than this new Plone site's development! Ahem ... the process you describe requires that you know someone, or that you post a list question asking how to add or translate content on the website. In the new Plone-based model, you just sign up and away you go. For some content we might want to have it moderated, but in general, I vote that we keep it as wiki-style as possible.
I just signed up on skin3 and there's no way to edit anything. Where should I be looking?
Oh look! I'm posting a list question asking how to add or translate content on the website... so it's exactly as transparent as before. The main difference is that this time, no-one, except maybe possibly at LibLime, knows the people.
Can we put the Plone site into the long grass until after 3.0 is out and we've a few deployments under our belt, please? You say you've not got time to work on it or run a normal vote, we've not had time to convert the current design, I doubt many people have got time to learn how to edit Plone just now and kea isn't that much worse. To edit a plone site, you click on edit. It sounds like the skin2 site hasn't had the user profiles set up the way that koha.org will.
MJ, you're the only one to raise an objection to plone and suggest that we should delay the website update -- that's hardly concensus. The multi-lingual needs of our community alone are serious incentive to get this finished. As I've stated in the past, there are some folks who have been waiting to have a koha.org in their language for YEARS. It sounds like you and paul prefer aspects of the current koha.org design, but I haven't heard any specifics yet. It's very possible we could include those aspects into the final plone skin. Either of you care to elaborate on what it is about the current design that you like? Cheers, -- Joshua Ferraro SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE CEO migration, training, maintenance, support LibLime Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS jmf@liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS
I'm sorry if my suggestion is out of place - but wouldn't it be best if we just got a site up and running that was multi-lingual and then worry about the design issues? I've had this very discussion hundreds of times over my years in web development and always found that getting something up and running allows for easier editing and customization than discussing things back and forth pre-release. Ironically I just had this talk with some librarians yesterday - the fact is that all the things we think are so bad pre-release end up becoming less important once the site is out - there are always bigger bugs/fixes to focus on then. Just my two cents. -- Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard http://liblime.com On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 6:33 AM, Joshua Ferraro <jmf@liblime.com> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 3:28 AM, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:
"Joshua Ferraro" <jmf@liblime.com> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 1:48 PM, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:
To update the current website, log in to kea on koha2, pick a file, edit it in the browser, then click to notify the webmaster (Russel IIRC) that there's an update waiting. If you need a login, ask Russel [...]
So what does "pretty non-transparent" mean? Not at LibLime? Not sure what you're implying here, and whether I should be offended by it :-)
Well, that makes two of us. I don't know what "pretty non-transparent" means and you've ignored a direct question about it. Why all the evasion recently?
To me, koha2 seems more transparent than this new Plone site's development! Ahem ... the process you describe requires that you know someone, or that you post a list question asking how to add or translate content on the website. In the new Plone-based model, you just sign up and away you go. For some content we might want to have it moderated, but in general, I vote that we keep it as wiki-style as possible.
I just signed up on skin3 and there's no way to edit anything. Where should I be looking?
Oh look! I'm posting a list question asking how to add or translate content on the website... so it's exactly as transparent as before. The main difference is that this time, no-one, except maybe possibly at LibLime, knows the people.
Can we put the Plone site into the long grass until after 3.0 is out and we've a few deployments under our belt, please? You say you've not got time to work on it or run a normal vote, we've not had time to convert the current design, I doubt many people have got time to learn how to edit Plone just now and kea isn't that much worse. To edit a plone site, you click on edit. It sounds like the skin2 site hasn't had the user profiles set up the way that koha.org will.
MJ, you're the only one to raise an objection to plone and suggest that we should delay the website update -- that's hardly concensus. The multi-lingual needs of our community alone are serious incentive to get this finished. As I've stated in the past, there are some folks who have been waiting to have a koha.org in their language for YEARS.
It sounds like you and paul prefer aspects of the current koha.org design, but I haven't heard any specifics yet. It's very possible we could include those aspects into the final plone skin. Either of you care to elaborate on what it is about the current design that you like?
Cheers,
-- Joshua Ferraro SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE CEO migration, training, maintenance, support LibLime Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS jmf@liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS _______________________________________________
Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
Paul is right, I agree with those who say the current Koha.org design is preferable to the options we've been shown.
I'm sorry if my suggestion is out of place - but wouldn't it be best if we just got a site up and running that was multi-lingual and then worry about the design issues?
I think Nicole makes an excellent point. I also think that we need to consider the option of saying, "Sorry, there were no winners this time." -- Owen
Owen Leonard wrote:
I think Nicole makes an excellent point. I also think that we need to consider the option of saying, "Sorry, there were no winners this time."
Does that mean we are all lusers? <duck type="for cover"/> -rickw -- ________________________________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services || Internet Driving Instructor We like to think of ourselves as the Microsoft of the energy world. -- Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron
I know this discussion has sort of died, but I want to bring it back to everyone's attention. I'm working on the documentation for Koha and I'd love to be able to share it with everyone, but it's on hold until we get the new Plone site up and running. Is there any way we can come up with a way to push the site up and fix the design after the fact? Look & feel is secondary to content - and I think it's easier to decide how we want things to look once we're actually using the tool. I brought this up on #koha and was told that there was a prize for this design contest - I didn't realize that - and see how that makes things a bit more complicated - but I think we should come up with some sort of compromise to get the ball rolling. -- Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/ On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Owen Leonard <oleonard@myacpl.org> wrote:
Paul is right, I agree with those who say the current Koha.org design is preferable to the options we've been shown.
I'm sorry if my suggestion is out of place - but wouldn't it be best if we just got a site up and running that was multi-lingual and then worry about the design issues?
I think Nicole makes an excellent point. I also think that we need to consider the option of saying, "Sorry, there were no winners this time."
-- Owen
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
"Nicole Engard" <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
I know this discussion has sort of died, but I want to bring it back to everyone's attention. I'm working on the documentation for Koha and I'd love to be able to share it with everyone, but it's on hold until we get the new Plone site up and running.
Why's this blocking it? Plone is pretty well-known, so why not prepare and share in a Plone-upload-ready format? Not as good, but avoids a blocker.
Is there any way we can come up with a way to push the site up and fix the design after the fact? Look & feel is secondary to content - and I think it's easier to decide how we want things to look once we're actually using the tool.
I'm not so sure that look & feel is secondary to content (see the wiki - lots of good content lost in an awkward look and feel) but koha.org appears to be wholly controlled by Name:Sara Burger Organization:Metavore Inc. which is essentially liblime.com IIRC. Can you pull some strings at your work and tell koha-devel what the options are for moving this on?
I brought this up on #koha and was told that there was a prize for this design contest - I didn't realize that - and see how that makes things a bit more complicated - but I think we should come up with some sort of compromise to get the ball rolling.
Well, I've no great problem in junking the design contest (see http://article.gmane.org/gmane.education.libraries.koha.devel/380 for why) and I've no idea who is liable for all the lies now in http://www.koha.org/about-koha/news/nr1199901668.html but I'm sure it isn't "the Koha community" because most of us had no involvement in the running of this contest AFAIK. Best wishes, -- MJ Ray (slef) Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ (Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237
MJ Ray a écrit :
"Nicole Engard" <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
I know this discussion has sort of died, but I want to bring it back to everyone's attention. I'm working on the documentation for Koha and I'd love to be able to share it with everyone, but it's on hold until we get the new Plone site up and running.
Why's this blocking it? Plone is pretty well-known, so why not prepare and share in a Plone-upload-ready format? Not as good, but avoids a blocker.
++
Well, I've no great problem in junking the design contest (see http://article.gmane.org/gmane.education.libraries.koha.devel/380 for why) and I've no idea who is liable for all the lies now in http://www.koha.org/about-koha/news/nr1199901668.html but I'm sure it isn't "the Koha community" because most of us had no involvement in the running of this contest AFAIK.
Unless my English is poor, "lie" mean (at least in French) the intention to lurk the ppl you're lying to. In the specified case, I'm sure it's not a lie. For sure an announcement that could have been done by involving the community sooner. But kados apologizes about that on january, 20 :
I'm sorry that you feel left out of the process, and I agree it would have been best to air this topic on the list prior to the announcement, I'll take responsibility for not doing that.
so for me it's a closed question (maybe it's related to kados doing too much things, that I opened last week, but I'm not your boss kados, I just try to be a wise man) The only interesting one is : how to set up a new koha.org site where we could share more information. Kados, pls tell us where you suggest to go, and, pls, avoid saying us one day "we have done this and that", share before doing/deciding ! cheers -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : 04 91 31 45 19
Paul POULAIN <paul.poulain@free.fr> wrote:
MJ Ray a écrit :
Well, I've no great problem in junking the design contest (see http://article.gmane.org/gmane.education.libraries.koha.devel/380 for why) and I've no idea who is liable for all the lies now in http://www.koha.org/about-koha/news/nr1199901668.html but I'm sure it isn't "the Koha community" because most of us had no involvement in the running of this contest AFAIK.
Unless my English is poor, "lie" mean (at least in French) the intention to lurk the ppl you're lying to. [...]
Eek! No, English "lie" isn't like that. It's simply a "false statement" [Collins 1985] but I see now that US English attaches a deliberate intent to deceive [Webster 1913]. Two peoples, divided by a common language... (Hey, why are you using centuries-drifting US English instead of English English? That would be like me using Quebec French... ;-) ) To be clear, I don't mean anyone posted the above as deception, but it is now chock-full of false statements that koha.org is making. Is it OK if I remove the false statements and request republication? Thanks, -- MJ Ray (slef) Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ (Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:25 AM, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:
Paul POULAIN <paul.poulain@free.fr> wrote:
MJ Ray a écrit :
Well, I've no great problem in junking the design contest (see http://article.gmane.org/gmane.education.libraries.koha.devel/380 for why) and I've no idea who is liable for all the lies now in http://www.koha.org/about-koha/news/nr1199901668.html but I'm sure it isn't "the Koha community" because most of us had no involvement in the running of this contest AFAIK.
Unless my English is poor, "lie" mean (at least in French) the intention to lurk the ppl you're lying to. [...]
Eek! No, English "lie" isn't like that. It's simply a "false statement" [Collins 1985] but I see now that US English attaches a deliberate intent to deceive [Webster 1913]. Two peoples, divided by a common language...
(Hey, why are you using centuries-drifting US English instead of English English? That would be like me using Quebec French... ;-) )
To be clear, I don't mean anyone posted the above as deception, but it is now chock-full of false statements that koha.org is making. MJ, I find these kinds of posts by you to be infuriating. You seem to be bent on hostility as a primary way of discussion. The statements made on koha.org are not false. We are moving koha.org to plone, there was a contest in which votes were cast, and there is a reward to be distributed.
Could the process have been done more democratically? Undoubtably, yes. But remember that if the contests came back and everyone was totally thrilled with one or more of the designs, it's unlikely this issue would even have been raised by anyone but you. Also, please remember, koha.org is a domain name that is owned (it was purchased in fact) by LibLime. We are the current stewards of the website, just like Katipo was for many years. Katipo decided to maintain the last revision of the Koha website using software they wrote (Kete), why do you nit pick us (LibLime) for wanting to deploy koha.org on plone? Our only aim with this move has been to improve and promote the Koha community through transparent community participation in the maintenance of the website, translation of the website, improved and up-to-date documentation. If I recall correctly MJ, you own a Koha website; I know for sure there's another one, koha-fr.org, owned by BibLibre.
Is it OK if I remove the false statements and request republication? No, because you are implying that your opinion constitutes the official koha.org position, and the maintainers of the koha.org's decisions about how best to maintain it do not; in fact, as I've pointed out before, there is not and never has been an official process for determining the community's position on any given decision -- thusfar, because we have so few resources as a community, decisions have been made based on who had resources to do what.
Perhaps we're outgrowing our decision-making process and we need to explore a more official decision-making process. I'd also like to see this list be moderated with some rules of conduct, addressing rudeness and general posting guidelines. The posts I've seen from you lately MJ are reminicent of years previous when you were a more active and somewhat negative voice in the Koha community; I am offended by your tone and I think you are hurting the community's morale, and causing stagnation and indecision. Regards, -- Joshua Ferraro SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE CEO migration, training, maintenance, support LibLime Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS jmf@liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS
Just a few litte points On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 6:10 AM, Joshua Ferraro <jmf@liblime.com> wrote:
Also, please remember, koha.org is a domain name that is owned (it was purchased in fact) by LibLime. We are the current stewards of the website, just like Katipo was for many years. Katipo decided to maintain the last revision of the Koha website using software they wrote (Kete),
Kea is the CMS used to manage koha.org
why do you nit pick us (LibLime) for wanting to deploy koha.org on plone? Our only aim with this move has been to improve and promote the Koha community through transparent community participation in the maintenance of the website, translation of the website, improved and up-to-date documentation.
If I recall correctly MJ, you own a Koha website; I know for sure there's another one, koha-fr.org, owned by BibLibre.
Is it OK if I remove the false statements and request republication? No, because you are implying that your opinion constitutes the official koha.org position, and the maintainers of the koha.org's decisions about how best to maintain it do not; in fact, as I've pointed out before, there is not and never has been an official process for determining the community's position on any given decision -- thusfar, because we have so few resources as a community, decisions have been made based on who had resources to do what.
Perhaps we're outgrowing our decision-making process and we need to explore a more official decision-making process. I'd also like to see this list be moderated with some rules of conduct, addressing rudeness and general posting guidelines.
Id strongly resist moderating for content, other than for spam. Down that road lies censorship.
The posts I've seen from you lately MJ are reminicent of years previous when you were a more active and somewhat negative voice in the Koha community; I am offended by your tone and I think you are hurting the community's morale, and causing stagnation and indecision.
I think that is also a bit harsh in tone, as was the word 'lies' (loaded
term, probably would have been best not using it MJ) Chris
"Joshua Ferraro" <jmf@liblime.com> wrote:
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:25 AM, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:
To be clear, I don't mean anyone posted the above as deception, but it is now chock-full of false statements that koha.org is making.
MJ, I find these kinds of posts by you to be infuriating. You seem to be bent on hostility as a primary way of discussion.
I find personal messages sent to the mailing list and being ignored by kados on IRC infuriating... I seem to be cut out of whatever discussion is going on about the website. I'm here, ready to work, but excluded. I don't know whether any changes I submit to www.koha.org are just going to be fed to the village goat. Why is it surprising that I am getting increasingly hostile about this situation?
The statements made on koha.org are not false.
How? Some of them clearly are false now, such as "The Grand Prize winner and and Honorable Mentions will be announced on March 19, 2008" and we should amend those statements because they are now making us look untrustworthy and poor timekeepers. [...]
Could the process have been done more democratically? Undoubtably, yes. But remember that if the contests came back and everyone was totally thrilled with one or more of the designs, it's unlikely this issue would even have been raised by anyone but you.
I don't feel that's surprising when someone who does raise this sort of issue is subject to this type of unfair personal attack.
Also, please remember, koha.org is a domain name that is owned (it was purchased in fact) by LibLime.
If LibLime wants, I'm happy to ask TTLLP to pay for koha.org in future and/or transfer it to an open community-controlled organisation, to stop that being a problem. [...]
why do you nit pick us (LibLime) for wanting to deploy koha.org on plone?
That looks like selective memory. I've no complaint with wanting to deploy on plone. As I wrote when it was announced: "I'm not bothered either way about Plone. It has benefits, such as the version control and FTP possibility; and it has drawbacks, such as having to jump through hoops to avoid breaking our existing URLs and our difficulty in supporting python and particularly Zope as well as perl and Apache." If anything, I'm nit-picking the lack of information and the poor change management.
Our only aim with this move has been to improve and promote the Koha community through transparent community participation in the maintenance of the website, translation of the website, improved and up-to-date documentation.
Well, as far as I can tell, moving to Plone (a technical measure) will not necessarily affect transparency of community participation (a social problem), may or may not improve translation (I'm not clear what the problem is with that) and is now blocking documentation updates, according to Nicole Engard on this list on 2008-05-02.
If I recall correctly MJ, you own a Koha website; [...]
No. It was retired in favour of www.koha.org when that was last upgraded, remember? This is partly why the decline of www.koha.org concerns me so much. My own sites only have a few pages on Koha and I have a scratchpad where I upload patches first, partly so TTLLP and associates can get them easily. Crippling www.koha.org hurts my work.
Is it OK if I remove the false statements and request republication? No, because you are implying that your opinion constitutes the official koha.org position, and the maintainers of the koha.org's decisions about how best to maintain it do not;
I don't understand that. I can't put anything on www.koha.org without its maintainers approving it. All I can do is request republication.
in fact, as I've pointed out before, there is not and never has been an official process for determining the community's position on any given decision
-- and I pointed out that we have used a couple of ways to determine the community's position in the past, so why are we inventing yet another? This is a problem other communities have answered, too.
[...] I'd also like to see this list be moderated with some rules of conduct, addressing rudeness and general posting guidelines.
Me too. As with other groups where I've helped to develop codes of conduct, I'd definitely include forbidding these sort of personal attacks from the list!
[...] I am offended by your tone and I think you are hurting the community's morale, and causing stagnation and indecision.
Tone is notoriously absent from emails. Anyone can pick up the phone if they want. My number is in my footer (or I can give a SIP URL off-list), and I'll go switch off voicemail for a bit now. In my opinion, the biggest challenge to our community's morale and cause of stagnation is our current apparent inability to approach a release. Hope that explains, -- MJ Ray (slef) Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ (Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237
Joshua Ferraro wrote:
On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 3:28 AM, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:
[snip]
Can we put the Plone site into the long grass until after 3.0 is out and we've a few deployments under our belt, please? You say you've not got time to work on it or run a normal vote, we've not had time to convert the current design, I doubt many people have got time to learn how to edit Plone just now and kea isn't that much worse. To edit a plone site, you click on edit. It sounds like the skin2 site hasn't had the user profiles set up the way that koha.org will.
MJ, you're the only one to raise an objection to plone and suggest that we should delay the website update -- that's hardly concensus. The multi-lingual needs of our community alone are serious incentive to get this finished. As I've stated in the past, there are some folks who have been waiting to have a koha.org in their language for YEARS.
It sounds like you and paul prefer aspects of the current koha.org design, but I haven't heard any specifics yet. It's very possible we could include those aspects into the final plone skin. Either of you care to elaborate on what it is about the current design that you like?
What I heard Paul say was "colors" and "shapes". To quote:
Note also that I understand the interest of Plone. But I think at this moment, that the design (colors, round squares, blue/white/green...) are better than the 3 proposals. So I wonder if we could not keep the design AND switch to plone.
(...and I have to apologize for going down the rabbit trail of CSS and layout - the poll explicitly states "Focus on the graphical aspects of the web design such as color, style, and fonts."). Color: ------ I understand that color styles/preferences change over time, but skin #2 is simply UGLY in my unenlightened view. Skin #1 is based on a little darker shade of green than koha.org and little, if any, of the blue. I see the green as the same basic color as koha.org. Skin #3 is a "brighter" (lighter) shade than koha.org, and uses both the green and the blue. Again, I see the same basic colors, different shade. It also isn't using the gradient on the blocks of color. Style: ------ Skin #1 has the rounded box look like koha.org, although the layout is quite different - koha.org's top "box" is a fully rounded stand-alone block where Skin #1 the top part is a full width black banner. I like Skin #1's effect somewhat better, but cannot justify why. (I've previously commented on Skin #1's (and koha.org's) limitations on reflowing text and rescaling the header as the window gets bigger or smaller - I believe this is driven by the round edge graphics approach used to make the rounded boxes.) Skin #2 has a very spartan, square box look to me. UGLY. Skin #3 is angular, but not the "smack you in the face with square boxes" look of #2. I actually prefer this of the three. My bias is that I'm more of a Nokia N800 kinda guy than an iPhone kinda guy (utilitarian rather than stylin'). Fonts: ------ I cannot see any difference in fonts. Other: ------ Plone can give registered users a choice of skins. All four (and more) skins could theoretically be supported, but that obviously adds to initial and maintenance costs. My personal take: Anything but #2. Best regards, gvb
Joshua Ferraro a écrit :
It sounds like you and paul prefer aspects of the current koha.org design, but I haven't heard any specifics yet. It's very possible we could include those aspects into the final plone skin. Either of you care to elaborate on what it is about the current design that you like?
I'm not the only one : I've seen that owen has written something on IRC about that, and chris C. said he agrees with my mail (on irc too) The question of plone or something else is not my main concern. My main concern is to have an attractive design. And I think the actual one is much attractive than the 3 alternatives suggested for plone. note: www.koha-fr.org runs spip. We haven't spoken about merging koha-fr.org on i18n koha.org yet. we will probably ask the french ML once the new koha.org is set. -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : 04 91 31 45 19
Darci Hanning a écrit :
Dear Koha Community,
You may now vote for the Koha Community Website Theme here:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=cXmKffvDeO7c48PVcFB4BA_3d_3d
I really have a problem... after looking at the 3 proposal once again, my opinion is that I definetly don't like any of them, and prefer, from far, the actual design. Isn't there a way to implement the current design in Plone ? -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : 04 91 31 45 19
Paul POULAIN wrote:
Darci Hanning a écrit :
Dear Koha Community,
You may now vote for the Koha Community Website Theme here:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=cXmKffvDeO7c48PVcFB4BA_3d_3d
I really have a problem... after looking at the 3 proposal once again, my opinion is that I definetly don't like any of them, and prefer, from far, the actual design.
Isn't there a way to implement the current design in Plone ?
Version #1 looks quite similar to koha.org to me (and I prefer it, but I'm not known for my aesthetic tastes). Plone is CSS based, so many things can be done to it visually without modifying the internals. Having said that, the further you stray from the standard Plone CSS, the more work it is to stay on the upgrade train. Note that the Plone CSS is huge[1]. On the other hand, it looks good (to me ;-) and Just Works[tm] and works well, even on IE and on smaller displays. (My related complaint with Plone is that it is slower than I would like, but not intolerably slow... it has not exceeded my technical inertia, so I have not done anything special to speed it up.) The "standard" Plone is based on a header and three columns. The left and right columns are extra information and the center (bigger) column is the primary content of the page. The contents of the left and right columns are "portlets" that can be enabled, disabled, positioned, etc. easily. This means either or both columns can be easily suppressed. What I'm looking at at koha.org (I presume that is the site Paul is referring to) is based on a header, left column, and main column. That fits in the Plone scheme quite easily. Disclaimer: I sysadmin a Plone site (several sites, actually, but they are all related and running on one Plone instance), but I have not done any rewriting of the Plone CSS - reference my self-evaluation of my aesthetic tastes. Best regards, gvb [1] Summary of a nearly stock out of the box Plone 2.5 instance: <http://www.websiteoptimization.com/services/analyze/> Analysis and Recommendations * TOTAL_HTML - Congratulations, the total number of HTML files on this page (including the main HTML file) is 1 which most browsers can multithread. Minimizing HTTP requests is key for web site optimization. * TOTAL_OBJECTS - Warning! The total number of objects on this page is 72 - consider reducing this to a more reasonable number. Combine, refine, and optimize your external objects. Replace graphic rollovers with CSS rollovers to speed display and minimize HTTP requests. * TOTAL_IMAGES - Warning! The total number of images on this page is 67 , consider reducing this to a more reasonable number. Combine, refine, and optimize your graphics. Replace graphic rollovers with CSS rollovers to speed display and minimize HTTP requests. * TOTAL_CSS - Caution. The total number of external CSS files on this page is 3 , consider reducing this to a more reasonable number. Combine, refine, and optimize your external CSS files. Ideally you should have one (or even embed CSS for high-traffic pages) on your pages. * TOTAL_SIZE - Warning! The total size of this page is 228888 bytes, which will load in 60.02 seconds on a 56Kbps modem. Consider reducing total page size to less than 30K to achieve sub eight second response times on 56K connections. Pages over 100K exceed most attention thresholds at 56Kbps, even with feedback. Consider contacting us about our optimization services. * TOTAL_SCRIPT - Congratulations, the total number of external script files on this page is 1 . External scripts are less reliably cached than CSS files so consider combining scripts into one, or even embedding them into high-traffic pages. * HTML_SIZE - Caution. The total size of this HTML file is 22815 bytes, which is above 20K but below 100K. With a 10K ad and a logo this means that your page will load in over 8.6 seconds. Consider optimizing your HTML and eliminating unnecessary features. To give your users feedback, consider layering your page or using positioning to display useful content within the first two seconds. * IMAGES_SIZE - Warning! The total size of your images is 63042 bytes, which is over 30K. Consider optimizing your images for size, combining them, and replacing graphic rollovers with CSS. * SCRIPT_SIZE - Warning! The total size of external your scripts is 66818 bytes, which is over 8K. Consider optimizing your scripts for size, combining them, and using compression where appropriate for any scripts placed in the HEAD of your documents. * CSS_SIZE - Warning! The total size of your external CSS is 76213 bytes, which is over 8K. Consider optimizing your CSS for size by eliminating whitespace, using shorthand notation, and combining multiple CSS files where appropriate. * MULTIM_SIZE - Congratulations, the total size of all your external multimedia files is 0 bytes, which is less than 4K. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.koha.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Analysis and Recommendations * TOTAL_HTML - Congratulations, the total number of HTML files on this page (including the main HTML file) is 1 which most browsers can multithread. Minimizing HTTP requests is key for web site optimization. * TOTAL_OBJECTS - Warning! The total number of objects on this page is 19 - consider reducing this to a more reasonable number. Combine, refine, and optimize your external objects. Replace graphic rollovers with CSS rollovers to speed display and minimize HTTP requests. * TOTAL_IMAGES - Warning! The total number of images on this page is 17 , consider reducing this to a more reasonable number. Combine, refine, and optimize your graphics. Replace graphic rollovers with CSS rollovers to speed display and minimize HTTP requests. * TOTAL_CSS - Congratulations, the total number of external CSS files on this page is 1 . Because external CSS files must be in the HEAD of your HTML document, they must load first before any BODY content displays. Although they are cached, CSS files slow down the initial display of your page. * TOTAL_SIZE - Caution. The total size of this page is 75384 bytes, which will load in over 8 seconds on a 56Kbps modem - or 18.82 seconds. Consider reducing total page size to less than 30K to achieve sub eight second response times on 56K connections. Be sure to provide feedback for pages over 30K by layering your design to display useful content within the first two seconds. Consider optimizing your site with Speed Up Your Site or contacting us about our optimization services. * HTML_SIZE - Congratulations, the total size of this HTML file is 7048 bytes, which less than 20K. Assuming that you specify the HEIGHT and WIDTH of your images, this size allows your page to display content in well under 8 seconds, the average time users are willing to wait for a page to display without feedback. * IMAGES_SIZE - Warning! The total size of your images is 54776 bytes, which is over 30K. Consider optimizing your images for size, combining them, and replacing graphic rollovers with CSS. * CSS_SIZE - Warning! The total size of your external CSS is 13560 bytes, which is over 8K. Consider optimizing your CSS for size by eliminating whitespace, using shorthand notation, and combining multiple CSS files where appropriate. * MULTIM_SIZE - Congratulations, the total size of all your external multimedia files is 0 bytes, which is less than 4K.
Jerry Van Baren wrote:
Paul POULAIN wrote:
Darci Hanning a écrit :
Dear Koha Community,
You may now vote for the Koha Community Website Theme here:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=cXmKffvDeO7c48PVcFB4BA_3d_3d I really have a problem... after looking at the 3 proposal once again, my opinion is that I definetly don't like any of them, and prefer, from far, the actual design.
Isn't there a way to implement the current design in Plone ?
Version #1 looks quite similar to koha.org to me (and I prefer it, but I'm not known for my aesthetic tastes).
P.S. I dislike sites with fixed widths because fixed widths means suboptimal displays on large terminals and annoy and often unreadable displays on small terminals. Koha.org and "site 1" suffer from from this (rescale the width of your browser and watch the text not flow). Site 2 and Site 3 do *not* suffer from this (the text and the menu tabs flow properly). The fixed size/resizing issue is a CSS definition / layout methodology issue, not a Plone issue. Best regards, gvb
Jerry Van Baren a écrit :
P.S. I dislike sites with fixed widths because fixed widths means suboptimal displays on large terminals and annoy and often unreadable displays on small terminals. Koha.org and "site 1" suffer from from this (rescale the width of your browser and watch the text not flow). Site 2 and Site 3 do *not* suffer from this (the text and the menu tabs flow properly).
The fixed size/resizing issue is a CSS definition / layout methodology issue, not a Plone issue.
You're right. But just 2 notes : - the size is OK in 800x600, so I think the small terminal question is not a problem - this problem is mostly a geek problem. We want to attract users, and librarians, afaik, don't care at all of those kind of problems. Note also that I understand the interest of Plone. But I think at this moment, that the design (colors, round squares, blue/white/green...) are better than the 3 proposals. So I wonder if we could not keep the design AND switch to plone. -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : 04 91 31 45 19
Paul POULAIN <paul.poulain@free.fr> wrote:
But just 2 notes : - the size is OK in 800x600, so I think the small terminal question is not a problem - this problem is mostly a geek problem. We want to attract users, and librarians, afaik, don't care at all of those kind of problems.
- The size is not OK in 512-width (half-screen, for seeing all of two web browsers side-by-side) so I think the small terminal question is a problem. And my mobile browser is 192-wide IIRC and mobiles are becoming more common... - From what I've seen, librarians are *less* likely to run a browser full-width. They seem to appreciate paper-like ratios, for some reason ;-) which is where I got the habit of paper-shaped windows from, I think. Could just be the librarians I've met, though. Best wishes, -- MJ Ray (slef) Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ (Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237
Darci Hanning a écrit :
Dear Koha Community,
You may now vote for the Koha Community Website Theme here: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=cXmKffvDeO7c48PVcFB4BA_3d_3d
OK, After investigating much more on the survey & on the demo sites, my conclusion : - the new features that plone will add are really nice : documentation, download, forums... So I vote "yes" to move to plone, i'm convinced (nobody asked my opinion, but I give it anyway :-D ) - i've given "1" ratings to theme 2 and 3 and poor ratings to theme 1. #2 and #3 are really too bright/white for me. I don't like the colors, I don't like anything. I don't like #1 either, but if I really have to choose between only those 3, I could live #1. But definetly, I prefer the actual design of www.koha.org, and hope we will decide to switch to plone with a design like the one we have atm. (maybe change a little #1 to be closer to the actual one, because, yes, #1 is the closest ?) -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : 04 91 31 45 19
Hi, After consulting my girlfriend, I (actually: she...) voted for skin 1. However the only drawback of this theme is that it's central text-column width doesn't change along with the browser window size, where the other two DO. I would like to see that implemented in whatever skin we choose. Kind regards, MJ
participants (10)
-
Chris Cormack -
Darci Hanning -
Jerry Van Baren -
Joshua Ferraro -
MJ Ray -
mourik jan c heupink -
Nicole Engard -
Owen Leonard -
Paul POULAIN -
Rick Welykochy