Sep 13, 2002 To the Koha community Welcome, Koha seems to be showing up in a lot more places these days. I've heard from people in the US, Ireland, Germany, India, and Panama about their desire to start using it. We've recently shown up on the South African Government's Open Source Software website. I've even seen a Koha installation in Japan. This is really cool! What's even better is that we're poised to do even more. If you've got a question, comment, or a success story, please feel free to drop me a line. 1.2 More work has gone into 1.2.3, and RC13 has just been released. We're seeing a lot of testing help from the community, and this will be key to making 1.2.3 work extremely well for everybody. 1.4 We're getting closer to a 1.3.0 release. Paul Poulain, the 1.4 release manager expects it in the next 2 weeks. What makes this 1.3/1.4 release so special? Well, on the surface, nothing seems to change... Koha should work exactly as in the 1.2 versions, but the underlying database API has been completely rewritten. Data is stored in the old, custom format and in MARC format too (MARC21 English by default, but other flavours of MARC will be supported as well. The 1.3.0 release has to be heavily tested to ensure that everything works as it did under 1.2.X. The next steps in the 1.3 series include MARC tools for librarians, MARC export and import, and many other nice features. REMEMBER : the 1.3.0 IS alpha-software Use it only for TESTING PURPOSES. You've been warned ! Documentation If you've converted from a proprietary ILS to Koha, please contact <nsr_koha@hotmail.com>. He's working on a migration guide to add to our existing manual. Translations Work is currently being done on some of our documentation translation tools. We're hoping to have tools and documentation ready for translators soon. Community Philanthropy Australia is this weeks news maker, see <http://www.linuxpr.com/releases/5107.html >. We've also made it onto a few more radar screens, systems from Follet.com and Epixtech.com have both been spotted checking out Koha. In breaking news, Steve Tonnesen has worked a bit more Koha magic. This week he's released a demo CD for Koha. This CD will allow a user to run a sample Koha installation on any Win32 systems that will boot from a CD. What a great way to spread the word. An ISO image (suitable for burning CDs) is available at: <http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=16466>. Koha has been invited to participate in the Think-Linux show in Columbus, Ohio (in the US). We're not sure yet whether this is logisticly possible for us. If you're interested in making our appearance at this show a reality, or in seeing Koha at a local conference, User Group meeting, or similar event, please let me know. While the pace of Koha acceptance and development seem to be picking up, we're still a very friendly place for newcomers. If you're new to Koha, please stop by the mailing list and introduce yourself. happy hacking, Pat Eyler Kaitiaki/manager the Koha project
Hi I'm Saiful Amin, a student of Master's of Library & Information Science. I've worked on Koha for a very brief period before my exams and am a member of this mailing list for the past 3 months. I've almost one year's experience in Perl and been working on redhat linux for past 8 months. I've worked on this software only for testing purposes to see how far it is suitable for the Indian libraries. So far I've got the koha-1.2.2 working with z3950 client and the sample database. I plan to test koha for many other features such as handling of multilingual documents. I'm currently busy this month with a team project on the Greenstone digital library system. My next project might well be on Koha! I am a big supporter of open source projects and would like to contribute at least in the documentation of this software. I would be more than happy to help out anybody in my locality concerning installation, etc. I really want it to keep growing. With regards, -Saiful
If you've got a question, comment, or a success story, please feel free to drop me a line.
Koha has been invited to participate in the Think-Linux show in Columbus, Ohio (in the US). We're not sure yet whether this is logisticly possible for us. If you're interested in making our appearance at this show a reality, or in seeing Koha at a local conference, User Group meeting, or similar event, please let me know.
While the pace of Koha acceptance and development seem to be picking up, we're still a very friendly place for newcomers. If you're new to Koha, please stop by the mailing list and introduce yourself.
happy hacking,
Pat Eyler Kaitiaki/manager the Koha project
c/o, DRTC Indian Statistical Institute 8th Mile, Mysore Road P.O. R V College Bangalore - 560059 Ph. 080-8483975 (Hostel) 8483002/3/4/6 (Extn 495) email: saifulamin@yahoo.com
On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, Saiful Amin wrote:
Hi
I'm Saiful Amin, a student of Master's of Library & Information Science. I've worked on Koha for a very brief period before my exams and am a member of this mailing list for the past 3 months. I've almost one year's experience in Perl and been working on redhat linux for past 8 months.
I've worked on this software only for testing purposes to see how far it is suitable for the Indian libraries. So far I've got the koha-1.2.2 working with z3950 client and the sample database. I plan to test koha for many other features such as handling of multilingual documents.
If you're planning on working with m18n issues, you'll probably want to get involved with the other people working on translations. I'm sure that's the place where we'll first see problems rearing their ugly heads.
I'm currently busy this month with a team project on the Greenstone digital library system. My next project might well be on Koha! I am a big supporter of open source projects and would like to contribute at least in the documentation of this software.
I would be more than happy to help out anybody in my locality concerning installation, etc. I really want it to keep growing.
That's great to hear. I'm not aware of any ongoing Koha projects in India at this point, but there have been several Indians starting to show an interest. If you start to coalesce around translations, implementations, or project work, we'd be happy to run a in.koha.org website and mailing list. thanks, -pate
With regards,
-Saiful
If you've got a question, comment, or a success story, please feel free to drop me a line.
Koha has been invited to participate in the Think-Linux show in Columbus, Ohio (in the US). We're not sure yet whether this is logisticly possible for us. If you're interested in making our appearance at this show a reality, or in seeing Koha at a local conference, User Group meeting, or similar event, please let me know.
While the pace of Koha acceptance and development seem to be picking up, we're still a very friendly place for newcomers. If you're new to Koha, please stop by the mailing list and introduce yourself.
happy hacking,
Pat Eyler Kaitiaki/manager the Koha project
c/o, DRTC Indian Statistical Institute 8th Mile, Mysore Road P.O. R V College Bangalore - 560059 Ph. 080-8483975 (Hostel) 8483002/3/4/6 (Extn 495) email: saifulamin@yahoo.com
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<quote who="Pat Eyler">
On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, Saiful Amin wrote:
I've worked on this software only for testing purposes to see how far it is suitable for the Indian libraries. So far I've got the koha-1.2.2 working with z3950 client and the sample database. I plan to test koha for many other features such as handling of multilingual documents.
If you're planning on working with m18n issues, you'll probably want to get involved with the other people working on translations. I'm sure that's the place where we'll first see problems rearing their ugly heads.
I don't know what is m18n. The term 'multilingual documents' might have been ambiguous. I meant cataloguing and search of documents in more than one language. The library for which I worked for 5 years (I'm studying on deputation) had collection in three languages -- English, Bengali, and Hindi. I was interested in how to catalague and give an integrated search interface to the entire collection. Translating a software (if that is what you meant above) in Indian languages would be very difficult because of the script. We would have to use Unicode for the Indic scripts like Devnagari. But if there is any effort on this direction going on then I would be willing to get involved.
I'm currently busy this month with a team project on the Greenstone digital library system. My next project might well be on Koha! I am a big supporter of open source projects and would like to contribute at least in the documentation of this software.
I would be more than happy to help out anybody in my locality concerning installation, etc. I really want it to keep growing.
That's great to hear. I'm not aware of any ongoing Koha projects in India at this point, but there have been several Indians starting to show an interest. If you start to coalesce around translations, implementations, or project work, we'd be happy to run a in.koha.org website and mailing list.
This is a great idea! Just before getting this mail I was thinking of starting my own Yahoogroup mailing list on Koha for Indian libraries. I'm delighted that you proposed this so early. Please go ahead with the idea though I would start my work from next month only.
thanks, -pate
c/o, DRTC Indian Statistical Institute Bangalore, India. email: saifulamin@yahoo.com
Hi, On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 03:24:44AM +0530, Saiful Amin wrote:
I don't know what is m18n. The term 'multilingual documents' might have been ambiguous. I meant cataloguing and search of documents in more than one language. The library for which I worked for 5 years (I'm studying on deputation) had collection in three languages -- English, Bengali, and Hindi. I was interested in how to catalague and give an integrated search interface to the entire collection.
"m17n" (not "m18n") means "multilingualization" (17 letters between "m" and "n"). (There is also "i18n", which means "internationalization", and "l10n", which means "localization". Translating Koha into Indian languages would be "l10n", not "m17n".) The library I work with is also in such a situation; we have books in Chinese and English, plus a few French books. And a lot of books are in both Chinese and English (Chinese and English titles and/or content). I thought New Zealand also have multilingual collections; how is Koha handling such collections in New Zealand? -- Ambrose Li <a.c.li@ieee.org> http://trends.ca/~acli/ http://www.cccgt.org/ DRM is theft - We are the stakeholders
Hello Ambrose, On 14 Sep 2002, at 19:28, Ambrose Li wrote:
I thought New Zealand also have multilingual collections; how is Koha handling such collections in New Zealand?
It isn't, so far. Horowhenua Library Trust ran out of money before we could address a Maori interface. We're hoping someone else will scratch this itch, one day. Rosalie Blake Horowhenua Library Trust
On Sat, 14 Sep 2002, Ambrose Li wrote:
Hi,
On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 03:24:44AM +0530, Saiful Amin wrote:
I don't know what is m18n. The term 'multilingual documents' might have been ambiguous. I meant cataloguing and search of documents in more than one language. The library for which I worked for 5 years (I'm studying on deputation) had collection in three languages -- English, Bengali, and Hindi. I was interested in how to catalague and give an integrated search interface to the entire collection.
"m17n" (not "m18n") means "multilingualization" (17 letters between "m" and "n"). (There is also "i18n", which means "internationalization", and "l10n", which means "localization". Translating Koha into Indian languages would be "l10n", not "m17n".)
thanks for the gentle correction. I normally mix the two pretty badly.
The library I work with is also in such a situation; we have books in Chinese and English, plus a few French books. And a lot of books are in both Chinese and English (Chinese and English titles and/or content).
I thought New Zealand also have multilingual collections; how is Koha handling such collections in New Zealand?
I think that this is one of the areas where Koha can begin to shine. It will take some work to get there though. Are there any m17n/i18n/l10n gurus out there who want to start thinking about what we need to do to get there? On a related topic, there are a number of porjects that I think would have wide appeal to libraries. Does anyone have any ideas how we can make co-sponsoring projects more attractive to libraries? One thought that I had was to scope the projects and lay out a series of milestones. Libraries could then contribute to a 'bounty' for hitting those milestones. A method for distributing the money correctly is not entirely clear though. Thoughts? thanks, -pate
-- Ambrose Li <a.c.li@ieee.org> http://trends.ca/~acli/ http://www.cccgt.org/
DRM is theft - We are the stakeholders
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On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Pat Eyler wrote:
On Sat, 14 Sep 2002, Ambrose Li wrote:
The library I work with is also in such a situation; we have books in Chinese and English, plus a few French books. And a lot of books are in both Chinese and English (Chinese and English titles and/or content).
I thought New Zealand also have multilingual collections; how is Koha handling such collections in New Zealand?
I think that this is one of the areas where Koha can begin to shine. It will take some work to get there though. Are there any m17n/i18n/l10n gurus out there who want to start thinking about what we need to do to get there?
I'm not an i18n guru by any means, but I do have books in English, French, German, and Russian. I can think of a number of issues to think about: - If I look up a French book, it'd be nice to have the author and title appear in proper French, with all of the accents in the right places. - A multi-lingual book might have titles in several languages, e.g., "English-Russian Dictionary" also has the title "Anglo-russkiy slovar'" (except that the latter would be rendered in cyrillic, which I won't do in email). It should be possible to search for either one. - For that matter, a book might have several variants of the title in multiple languages. Terry Pratchett's "The Colour of Magic" is published in the US as "The Color of Magic." - A book might have only one title (say, in French), but the librarian who's looking it up doesn't know how to enter accents and whatnot. (Plus, the accents aren't always present: in "A la recherche du temps perdu", there would normally be an accent over the A, but it's capitalized, so there's no accent. German allows you to write "ue" instead of u-with-an-umlaut. Librarians shouldn't need to know these subtleties. - Even if a book has only one title, the librarian might want to search for it in English, i.e., search for the literal string "slovar" instead of the cyrillic string that's rendered as "slovar'" in ASCII. Here's one possible solution: come up with a notation to specify the language and encoding of a (sub)string, e.g.: =|<language>|<character-set>|<string>|= Thus, one could have A critical analysis of =|es|iso8859-1|Don Quixote|= and some similar notation for indicating variant (but equivalent) forms of a title: =|en_GB|iso8859-1|The colour of magic|= =|en_US|iso8859-1|The color of magic|= (Obviously, this can be used for authors, notes, etc., and not just titles.) This should take care of the problem of representing non-ASCII strings for the benefit of patrons who can read non-ASCII languages. The next problem is, what if a patron asks a librarian for "Anglo-russkiy slovar'". The librarian should be able to search for the literal string "slovar". This is a thornier problem. The best solution I've been able to come up with is to add a field to the database that gives the title in plain ASCII (or whatever the library considers to be native). Thus, when a new book is entered, remove any accents and transliterate any non-ASCII characters to ASCII. Store this as the "ASCII title." (Obviously, in many cases, this will be the same as the title; in this case, just leave the "ASCII title" field NULL.) The final i18n issue is perhaps the simplest: that of setting up the web interface to use the user's preferred language. I believe the browser is expected to send a list of languages in which it will accept results, so this can be extracted from the headers. In addition, Apache can automagically pick a document to return. That is, if the browser asks for "/index.html" and specifies that it'll accept languages "fr" and "en", then Apache will see if there's a file "/index.html.fr". For strings in scripts and such, the main thing is to identify and mark them. GNU's gettext package allows you to mark translatable strings as _(<string>) or L_(<string>) (though I'm not sure this would work terribly well in Perl). These strings can then be collected and maintained by a script. See, for instance, http://cvs.coldsync.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/coldsync/i18n/Makefile?rev=1.18&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup Okay, I'll shut up now. -- Andrew Arensburger Actually, these _do_ represent the arensb@ooblick.com opinions of ooblick.com! Generic Tagline V 6.01
Hi, On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 01:13:53PM -0400, Andrew Arensburger wrote:
I'm not an i18n guru by any means, but I do have books in English, French, German, and Russian. I can think of a number of issues to think about:
Neither am I an i18n guru by any means, but I'll comment on what I know.
- If I look up a French book, it'd be nice to have the author and title appear in proper French, with all of the accents in the right places. - A multi-lingual book might have titles in several languages, e.g., "English-Russian Dictionary" also has the title "Anglo-russkiy slovar'" (except that the latter would be rendered in cyrillic, which I won't do in email). It should be possible to search for either one.
This is also the case in "my" library. Because Koha will support MARC, this problem is partially solved (e.g., the existence of the "246" tag; we use a subfield inside "245" to encode parallel titles, but that breaks down when the book has three titles e.g., Chinese, English, and French).
- For that matter, a book might have several variants of the title in multiple languages. Terry Pratchett's "The Colour of Magic" is published in the US as "The Color of Magic."
I think Koha will have no trouble handling this if the backend is MARC-compliant and the frontend allows all the various MARC tags to be edited. I may be wrong, though. [...skipped...]
A critical analysis of =|es|iso8859-1|Don Quixote|= and some similar notation for indicating variant (but equivalent) forms of a title: =|en_GB|iso8859-1|The colour of magic|= =|en_US|iso8859-1|The color of magic|= (Obviously, this can be used for authors, notes, etc., and not just titles.)
Perhaps someone conversant with MARC may be able to tell us whether and to what extent MARC already handles these situations? I think title is partially solved, but I don't think MARC has mechanisms to handle multiple languages for authors and notes etc. so Koha would have to handle them itself. -- Ambrose Li <a.c.li@ieee.org> http://trends.ca/~acli/ http://www.cccgt.org/ DRM is theft - We are the stakeholders
---- This is also the case in "my" library. Because Koha will support MARC, this problem is partially solved (e.g., the existence of the "246" tag; we use a subfield inside "245" to encode parallel titles, but that breaks down when the book has three titles e.g., Chinese, English, and French). ---- At a thought, worst case is we can possibly solve this with some trickery with multiple "branches"... instead of somewhere being just locationname, it could have multiple branches covering the multiple languages or somesuch? Just a thought, Nick
On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 08:06:46PM -0400, Nicholas S. Rosasco wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------------- This is also the case in "my" library. Because Koha will support MARC, this problem is partially solved (e.g., the existence of the "246" tag; we use a subfield inside "245" to encode parallel titles, but that breaks down when the book has three titles e.g., Chinese, English, and French). --------------------------------------------------------------
At a thought, worst case is we can possibly solve this with some trickery with multiple "branches"... instead of somewhere being just locationname, it could have multiple branches covering the multiple languages or somesuch?
Yes, this is certainly possible, but the resulting database structure will become difficult to understand. What I think is, *if* MARC supports this to some degree, since Koha already supports MARC, perhaps it could exploit its MARC support to support multilingual authors/titles/etc.; otherwise (i.e., if MARC doesn't do these things, or if it does them really badly), we might want to rethink about the database structure. We could do trickeries, but trickeries could impact Koha's maintainability in the future, and possible also the speed of searching in the meantime. Perhaps I should not comment so much before I can get my Koha up and running properly. I probably don't know what I'm talking about :-( -- Ambrose Li <a.c.li@ieee.org> http://trends.ca/~acli/ http://www.cccgt.org/ DRM is theft - We are the stakeholders
participants (6)
-
Ambrose Li -
Andrew Arensburger -
Nicholas S. Rosasco -
Pat Eyler -
Rosalie Blake -
Saiful Amin