Re: [Koha-devel] Time estimate for the translation of koha
Hi Axel, Welcome to the Koha community, and thanks for your interest in translating Koha into norwegian bokmål, we'd love to support your effort in any way possible. As you point out, there are several methods and sources for translating Koha. The majority of the work involves generating and translating a POT file for the interface (OPAC vs Staff) and the version of Koha that you're wanting to translate (2.2.8 vs 2.2.9 vs 3.0) and finally the template/theme (in 2.2 series, there are two public themes, default and npl). Translations of Koha between minor version releases don't have many changes, there would only be at most a few new strings or changes to strings. So a translation of 2.2.8 will _mostly_ work for 2.2.9. The purpose of translate.koha.org is to simplify the process of maintenance of the POT files. To be sure, it could use a bit more maintenance. We're currently lacking an official 'translation manager' for the Koha project, but I do my best in my spare time to verify and add translation requests to that site. So ... the first thing to do is consider what version of Koha you want to translate. If the 2.2.x version, you can add your translation to translate.koha.org, or generate a POT file from 2.2.9 and translate that. If for 3.0, the templates haven't been 100% signed off yet, so it'd be best to wait until that happens before spending too much time translating a POT file from that code base. Note also, I've cced this to koha-translate, a list dedicated to dealing with translation issues for Koha: http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-translate Thanks again for your interest. Let us know if we can be of any help. Cheers, -- Joshua Ferraro SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE President, Technology migration, training, maintenance, support LibLime Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS jmf@liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS ----- "Axel Bojer" <axelb@skolelinux.no> wrote:
Axel Bojer skrev: (...)
I also see that you have a web interface:
I forgot the links: http://translate.koha.org/use.php?lg=en http://translate.koha.org/get_tables.php?lg=en&view=all
Norwegian bokmål is viewed as "0 %" and "508 lines" for the file: nor_npl_classic_opac wich is yet another(!) po file name.
Further:
"Click on a filename below in order to add suggested translations. Each language will have at least two files, one for the Public (OPAC) and one for the staff (Intranet). Some will have more because of the various 'themes' and 'versions' available."
Is this so to understand, that only two files (the above mentioned pot-files: css_opac.pot and default_intranet.pot) are really needed to
get a fully localized interface, and that the others are optional? And why do you then need over 5000 extra lines for themes? That is above me. And what exactly do you mean by "versions"?
The information I found told new translators to ask everything at the
mailing list :-)
Best regards Axel Bojer
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Joshua M. Ferraro skrev:
Hi Axel,
Welcome to the Koha community, and thanks for your interest in translating Koha into norwegian bokmål, we'd love to support your effort in any way possible.
As you point out, there are several methods and sources for translating Koha. The majority of the work involves generating and translating a POT file for the interface (OPAC vs Staff) and the version of Koha that you're wanting to translate (2.2.8 vs 2.2.9 vs 3.0) and finally the template/theme (in 2.2 series, there are two public themes, default and npl).
Translations of Koha between minor version releases don't have many changes, there would only be at most a few new strings or changes to strings. So a translation of 2.2.8 will _mostly_ work for 2.2.9.
The purpose of translate.koha.org is to simplify the process of maintenance of the POT files. To be sure, it could use a bit more maintenance. We're currently lacking an official 'translation manager' for the Koha project, but I do my best in my spare time to verify and add translation requests to that site.
So ... the first thing to do is consider what version of Koha you want to translate. If the 2.2.x version, you can add your translation to translate.koha.org, or generate a POT file from 2.2.9 and translate that. If for 3.0, the templates haven't been 100% signed off yet, so it'd be best to wait until that happens before spending too much time translating a POT file from that code base.
Note also, I've cced this to koha-translate, a list dedicated to dealing with translation issues for Koha:
http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-translate
Thanks again for your interest. Let us know if we can be of any help.
Thank you for your kind answer. What I am still missing though is the exact amount of work needed (at least the amount of strings included) to perform a full norwegian translation. I need this to give a good estimate on how much money and time I will have to ask for for this work. Could someone please answer which of the mentioned files are neeeded? (see my other posting on this subject for details). I will forward my first post also to the translation list, but since I am new to this I will, for now, write to both lists. Please protest if this is not the best way :-P Best regards Axel Bojer
Joshua M. Ferraro skrev:
Hi Axel,
Welcome to the Koha community, and thanks for your interest in translating Koha into norwegian bokmål, we'd love to support your effort in any way possible.
:-D
As you point out, there are several methods and sources for translating Koha. The majority of the work involves generating and translating a POT file for the interface (OPAC vs Staff)
Ok. So these are the two mentioned pot-files, I suppose, that is: -- css_opac.pot [472] and default_intranet.pot [2576] ?
and the version of Koha that you're wanting to translate (2.2.8 vs 2.2.9 vs 3.0) and finally
Which file(s) is this? -- css_intranet* [3998]
the template/theme (in 2.2 series, there are two public themes, default and npl).
Why different translations for different themes? Are'nt themes just different viewes put on top of the same mainframe? And what are the differences? -- default_opac* [200--205] -- npl_intranet* [3175] -- npl_opac* [507] could perhaps be the different theme files? But then again why is the npl_intranet* so much bigger?
Translations of Koha between minor version releases don't have many changes, there would only be at most a few new strings or changes to strings. So a translation of 2.2.8 will _mostly_ work for 2.2.9.
Since 2.2.9 is the latest version I don't see any point in translating anything other than the latest version, do you? :-) Also I would like to know if there are concrete planes for any new versions in the near future? But since changes are not that big from one version to the next (you said), I then suppose just updating fro 2.2.9 too wathever next would be no problem :-) The po-files on the webpage ( http://translate.koha.org/get_tables.php?lg=en&view=all ) are, I suppose, also for version 2.2.9, are they not?
The purpose of translate.koha.org is to simplify the process of maintenance of the POT files. To be sure, it could use a bit more maintenance. We're currently lacking an official 'translation manager' for the Koha project, but I do my best in my spare time to verify and add translation requests to that site.
Could you then add all the needed files for the norwegian translation? I have started on the one I found there, just to have a glimpse on it and to see what awaits us :-)
So ... the first thing to do is consider what version of Koha you want to translate. If the 2.2.x version, you can add your translation to translate.koha.org, or generate a POT file from 2.2.9 and translate that. If for 3.0, the templates haven't been 100% signed off yet, so it'd be best to wait until that happens before spending too much time translating a POT file from that code base.
Ok. We will concider wether taking the pot files directly from the tar-gz-file or using the web interface would be better, we are used to Kbabel, but I am testing out the ladder too :-) BTW: Would'nt it be less work and make it easier for translators too to include the questions I have asked and their answers somewehere on the web page, for instance on: http://translate.koha.org/use.php?lg=en or http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=howtotranslatekoha (that is almost empty now) or http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php Then newcomers would not have to wonder, for long that is, about the same as me :-)
Note also, I've cced this to koha-translate, a list dedicated to dealing with translation issues for Koha:
I am now a member of that list too :-) Best regards Axel Bojer
As you point out, there are several methods and sources for translating Koha. The majority of the work involves generating and translating a POT file for the interface (OPAC vs Staff)
Ok. So these are the two mentioned pot-files, I suppose, that is: -- css_opac.pot [472] and default_intranet.pot [2576] ?
and the version of Koha that you're wanting to translate (2.2.8 vs 2.2.9 vs 3.0) and finally
Which file(s) is this? -- css_intranet* [3998]
the template/theme (in 2.2 series, there are two public themes, default and npl).
Why different translations for different themes? Are'nt themes just different viewes put on top of the same mainframe? And what are the differences?
-- default_opac* [200--205] -- npl_intranet* [3175] -- npl_opac* [507] could perhaps be the different theme files? But then again why is the npl_intranet* so much bigger? default, npl, and css are all theme names, and themes in Koha aren't to be confused with stylesheets. A new theme can have completely different HTML markup. From there, each theme can have one or more
Translations of Koha between minor version releases don't have many changes, there would only be at most a few new strings or changes to strings. So a translation of 2.2.8 will _mostly_ work for 2.2.9.
Since 2.2.9 is the latest version I don't see any point in translating anything other than the latest version, do you? :-) Also I would like to know if there are concrete planes for any new versions in the near future? But since changes are not that big from one version to the next (you said), I then suppose just updating fro 2.2.9 too wathever next would be no problem :-) The po-files on the webpage ( http://translate.koha.org/get_tables.php?lg=en&view=all ) are, I suppose, also for version 2.2.9, are they not? We're pretty close to a release of 3.0, though in the next month or so
Hi Axel, ----- "Axel Bojer" <axelb@skolelinux.no> wrote: stylesheets that can change the look and feel of the theme even further. opac is the OPAC interface, and intranet is the Staff one. The Staff interface is larger because there are many more pages and lots more text to translate. there will be at least some changes to the HTML markup which will affect translation. The 3.0 markup represents a fairly drastic change from the 2.2 series so I'm afraid that translations of 2.2.x won't be that useful. The good news is that there is only one theme in 3.0, and we intend to keep it that way for the 'official' project templates. This means that you'll only have two POT files to contend with, one for the OPAC and one for the Staff client. If you're not in a super hurry, I'd recommend waiting a bit until 3.0's templates are stabilized ... once that happens I'll be posting widely about it and updating translate.koha.org with the new POT files so folks can start translating Koha 3.0 into their language(s). There's another, separate issue not mentioned yet, which is translation of the MARC frameworks, including authorities control and bibliographic entries (essentially, these are labels of the MARC tags and subtags that a cataloger uses). That adds about 1,500 additional lines.
The purpose of translate.koha.org is to simplify the process of maintenance of the POT files. To be sure, it could use a bit more maintenance. We're currently lacking an official 'translation manager' for the Koha project, but I do my best in my spare time to verify and add translation requests to that site.
Could you then add all the needed files for the norwegian translation? I have started on the one I found there, just to have a glimpse on it and to see what awaits us :-) The 2.2.x templates have about 5,000 lines IIRC. I'm happy to add an entry for 2.2.9 to translate.koha.org. I'll also see about getting you copies of the MARC bibliographic and authorities frameworks. Do you know whether UNIMARC or MARC21 is preferred?
So ... the first thing to do is consider what version of Koha you want to translate. If the 2.2.x version, you can add your translation to translate.koha.org, or generate a POT file from 2.2.9 and translate that. If for 3.0, the templates haven't been 100% signed off yet, so it'd be best to wait until that happens before spending too much time translating a POT file from that code base.
Ok. We will concider wether taking the pot files directly from the tar-gz-file or using the web interface would be better, we are used to Kbabel, but I am testing out the ladder too :-)
BTW: Would'nt it be less work and make it easier for translators too to include the questions I have asked and their answers somewehere on the web page, for instance on: http://translate.koha.org/use.php?lg=en or http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=howtotranslatekoha (that is almost empty now) or http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php
Then newcomers would not have to wonder, for long that is, about the same as me :-) It sure would be a good idea, can I take that to mean you'd be willing to compose an add such an explanation given the appropriate access? ;-)
I won't make any bones about it, due to time constraints, I'm a lousy translation manager ... I'd be happy to hand the job over to someone who's got available time/resources to devote to the job. Cheers, -- Joshua Ferraro SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE President, Technology migration, training, maintenance, support LibLime Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS jmf@liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS
Joshua M. Ferraro skrev:
Hi Axel, (...) opac is the OPAC interface, and intranet is the Staff one. The Staff interface is larger because there are many more pages and lots more text to translate.
Ok, so no more themes than this two are needed for 2.2.9? (The others are then optional, right?) (...)
We're pretty close to a release of 3.0, though in the next month or so there will be at least some changes to the HTML markup which will affect translation. The 3.0 markup represents a fairly drastic change from the 2.2 series so I'm afraid that translations of 2.2.x won't be that useful.
Ok, I think thats settles it prretty much: 3.0 would be the best choice for us. We are not in a hurry :-)
The good news is that there is only one theme in 3.0, and we intend to keep it that way for the 'official' project templates. This means that you'll only have two POT files to contend with, one for the OPAC and one for the Staff client. If you're not in a super hurry, I'd recommend waiting a bit until 3.0's templates are stabilized ... once that happens I'll be posting widely about it and updating translate.koha.org with the new POT files so folks can start translating Koha 3.0 into their language(s).
Seems to me like a good idea (I still don't grasp why there are other strings in different themes though, must be another set of funcionality in them then?)
There's another, separate issue not mentioned yet, which is translation of the MARC frameworks, including authorities control and bibliographic entries (essentially, these are labels of the MARC tags and subtags that a cataloger uses). That adds about 1,500 additional lines.
What is the purpose of these strings and do everyone need them, or is this kore for special needs?
The purpose of translate.koha.org is to simplify the process of maintenance of the POT files. To be sure, it could use a bit more maintenance. We're currently lacking an official 'translation manager' for the Koha project, but I do my best in my spare time to verify and add translation requests to that site. Could you then add all the needed files for the norwegian translation? I have started on the one I found there, just to have a glimpse on it and to see what awaits us :-) The 2.2.x templates have about 5,000 lines IIRC. I'm happy to add an entry for 2.2.9 to translate.koha.org. I'll also see about getting you copies of the MARC bibliographic and authorities frameworks. Do you know whether UNIMARC or MARC21 is preferred?
5.000? Kbabel counted css_opac.pot to 472 strings and default_intranet.pot to 2576, this makes about 3.000. What am I missing here? (...)
BTW: Would'nt it be less work and make it easier for translators too to include the questions I have asked and their answers somewehere on the web page, for instance on: http://translate.koha.org/use.php?lg=en or http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=howtotranslatekoha (that is almost empty now) or http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php
Then newcomers would not have to wonder, for long that is, about the same as me :-) It sure would be a good idea, can I take that to mean you'd be willing to compose an add such an explanation given the appropriate access? ;-)
I won't make any bones about it, due to time constraints, I'm a lousy translation manager ... I'd be happy to hand the job over to someone who's got available time/resources to devote to the job.
I am sorry to say I do not have this time either. But I shall try to put down our conclusions from this thread if you will grant me access and point me to the appropriate place for it. How do you find http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=howtotranslatekoha (almost empty now)? Best regards Axel bojer
participants (2)
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Axel Bojer -
Joshua M. Ferraro