[Koha-devel] Adopting CPAN and Carton

Chris Cormack chrisc at catalyst.net.nz
Tue Jun 16 22:19:39 CEST 2020



On 15/06/20 10:59 pm, Renvoize, Martin wrote:
> A couple of things
> 
> 1) You can already test koha using all the latest Perl dependencies from
> cpan using koha-testing-docker (Just set CPAN=1 in your environment
> before calling ku).. and I set this to run periodically on Jenkins
> 2) Carton takes snapshots to 'fix' your dependencies at specific
> versions.. all Perl dependencies, not just those you list in the
> cpanfile.. The idea is you use carton to ensure you match exactly what
> other developers are using, and track that list in git so you can
> upgrade on mass.
> 
> I can see arguments for both cases.  I argued against using Mojolicious
> and the OpenAPI plugin at the time because I knew the projects well and
> they are fast-moving and as such being 'stuck' on the Debian packages or
> stuck maintaining our own Debian packages is forever a challenge (and
> I've been proved right on that count a few times now).

Counter counter point, and why we should be using stable packages

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=962318

I think we are spread thin enough as it is, and we should be using
versions already packaged.

Chris

> 
> Just my two pence to add to the conversation.
> 
> 
> *Martin Renvoize*
> 
> 	
> 
> <https://www.ptfs-europe.com>
> 
> Development Team Manager
> 
> Community Release Manager (19.11, 20.05)
> 
> 
> *Phone:* +44 (0) 1483 378728
> 
> 	
> 
> *Mobile:* +44 (0) 7725 985 636
> 
> *Email:* martin.renvoize at ptfs-europe.com
> <mailto:martin.renvoize at ptfs-europe.com>
> 
> 	
> 
> *Fax:* +44 (0) 800 756 6384
> 
> 
> 	
> 
> www.ptfs-europe.com <https://www.ptfs-europe.com>
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Registered in the United Kingdom No. 06416372   VAT Reg No. 925 7211 30
> 
> 
> The information contained in this email message may be privileged,
> confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly
> prohibited. If you think that you have received this email message in
> error, please email the sender at info at ptfs-europe.com
> <mailto:info at ptfs-europe.com>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 at 00:59, <dcook at prosentient.com.au
> <mailto:dcook at prosentient.com.au>> wrote:
> 
>     Sourcing Perl dependencies via Debian's Apt repositories or embedded
>     CPAN dependencies wouldn't affect your "aptitude update/upgrade", as
>     Koha would've been tested ahead of time before being released.
> 
>     Perl and npm are apples and oranges. Perl is to Node.js as carton is
>     to npm. There are good and bad packages in both ecosystems.
> 
>     But Debian Perl package maintainers are very useful. My favourite
>     example is HTTP::OAI. Tim Brody's HTTP::OAI version 4.03 on CPAN was
>     broken. The version in Debian stayed on 3.27 for a while, and then
>     when 4.03+ was added to Debian, it included patches from a Debian
>     package maintainer. (Actually, looking at CPAN now, it seems like
>     someone else has also finally taken over HTTP::OAI from Tim Brody,
>     which is promising.)
> 
>     If we didn't use Debian packages, I suppose we would've stayed at
>     3.27 until the CPAN version was fixed.
> 
>     David Cook
>     Systems Librarian
>     Prosentient Systems
>     72/330 Wattle St
>     Ultimo, NSW 2007
>     Australia
> 
>     Office: 02 9212 0899
>     Online: 02 8005 0595
> 
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Koha-devel <koha-devel-bounces at lists.koha-community.org
>     <mailto:koha-devel-bounces at lists.koha-community.org>> On Behalf Of
>     Mike Lake
>     Sent: Wednesday, 10 June 2020 6:04 PM
>     To: koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org
>     <mailto:koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org>
>     Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Adopting CPAN and Carton
> 
>     Plus for Chris's view on this.
> 
>     As a sys admin that maintains a Koha for an org I want to be able to
>     "aptitude update/upgrade" without problems and do a future
>     dist-upgrade with few problems.
> 
>     Perl is pretty stable (vastly stable compared to npn packages) but
>     there are occasionally patches that come through. It's preferable
>     for a Debian Perl package maintainer to manage that I think.
> 
>     Mike
>     ---
>     Mike Lake
> 
>     On 2020-06-10 17:49, Chris Cormack wrote:
>     > Hi all
>     >
>     > Just want to put on record my thoughts that replacing the package
>     > architecture with carton or cpan seems like a bad idea.
>     > The main benefit of using modules packaged and tested by debian
>     > developers is that is a whole lot of work we don't have to do. It
>     > comes under the debian perl (who have massive combined knowledge) and
>     > the debian security team.
>     > If we are going to move away from that someone is going to be needing
>     > to follow all the security advisories for all the perl modules we use
>     > (must be a hundred or so) and deal with that. It also makes OS
>     > udgrades harder.
>     >
>     > I'm not opposed to having them as an option but replacing the
>     packages
>     > with them seems like a step into the utter chaos that is things like
>     > npm and the node world.
>     >
>     > Chris
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     Koha-devel mailing list
>     Koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org
>     <mailto:Koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org>
>     https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
>     website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git :
>     http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     Koha-devel mailing list
>     Koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org
>     <mailto:Koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org>
>     https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
>     website : http://www.koha-community.org/
>     git : http://git.koha-community.org/
>     bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Koha-devel mailing list
> Koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org
> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> website : http://www.koha-community.org/
> git : http://git.koha-community.org/
> bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
> 


More information about the Koha-devel mailing list