[Koha-devel] Elasticsearch changing licences

Mon Jan 18 23:52:04 CET 2021

'Just' for vendors hehe.

El lun., 18 ene. 2021 19:41, <dcook at prosentient.com.au> escribió:

> Hi Zeno,
>
> Thanks for sharing that Magento comment. That matches my understanding as
> well.
>
> However, the Koha Community isn't redistributing ES Object Code. There's
> nothing stopping Koha implementations from using Elastic Cloud or any other
> Elasticsearch offering. So what Shay Banon says in
> https://www.elastic.co/blog/licensing-change appears to be accurate
> (albeit not very clearly worded at times).
>
> I don't think there's anything for Koha to worry about here.
>
> David Cook
> Software Engineer
> Prosentient Systems
> Suite 7.03
> 6a Glen St
> Milsons Point NSW 2061
> Australia
>
> Office: 02 9212 0899
> Online: 02 8005 0595
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Koha-devel <koha-devel-bounces at lists.koha-community.org> On Behalf
> Of Zeno Tajoli
> Sent: Tuesday, 19 January 2021 9:03 AM
> To: 'koha-devel' <koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org>
> Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Elasticsearch changing licences
>
> Hi to all,
>
> I confirm the wrinting of David Cook.
> In my Koha (with ElasticSearch)n installation ES is with present with
> Elastic-License,
> https://github.com/elastic/elasticsearch/blob/master/licenses/ELASTIC-LICENSE.txt
>
> I think the situation is not clear and ambigus.
> In theory we are a situation like Magento (
> https://github.com/magento/magento2/issues/31656#issuecomment-761296521).
>
> I think we can ask (as Koha Comunity) a license to redistribute ES Object
> Code and same legal piece of paper that covers not only end-user
> (libraries) but also firms that sell support, hosting an installation of
> Koha. In fact  as SasS.
>
> Cheers
> Zeno Tajoli
>
> Il 18/01/2021 06:06, dcook at prosentient.com.au ha scritto:
> > After reading
> https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Elasticsearch#Install_elasticsearch,
> it looks like the Koha community is actually already using the "Elastic
> licence" since we're installing the compiled "binary" Elasticsearch rather
> than building our own Elasticsearch from the previously Apache 2.0 licenced
> Java source code.
> >
> > Interesting that Elastic provides two download links:
> https://www.elastic.co/downloads/elasticsearch and
> https://www.elastic.co/downloads/elasticsearch-oss. Yet, the package
> manager instructions are the same for both, while the direct DEB downloads
> in both appear to be for different packages.
> >
> > So if you look at... /usr/share/doc/elasticsearch/copyright, you'll
> probably find the Elastic License.
> >
> > So... technically speaking the replacement of Apache 2.0 with SSPL is
> actually probably irrelevant for us since we're not modifying or building
> the source code. We're just using the compiled Java object/byte code.
> >
> > Of course, that means our use of Elasticsearch has been with a free but
> proprietary licence. This SSPL change really just shines a light on the
> licensing for us then.
> >
> > David Cook
> > Software Engineer
> > Prosentient Systems
> > Suite 7.03
> > 6a Glen St
> > Milsons Point NSW 2061
> > Australia
> >
> > Office: 02 9212 0899
> > Online: 02 8005 0595
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Koha-devel <koha-devel-bounces at lists.koha-community.org> On
> > Behalf Of dcook at prosentient.com.au
> > Sent: Monday, 18 January 2021 11:47 AM
> > To: 'koha-devel' <koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Elasticsearch changing licences
> >
> > That's interesting that you know Vicky, Thomas. That was actually the
> first article I read before posting to this listserv. It was interesting.
> >
> > Thanks for that excerpt, Jonathan, although I think you have omitted a
> very important part where they define a service:
> >
> > """
> > Making the functionality of the Program or modified version available to
> third parties as a service includes, without limitation, enabling third
> parties to interact with the functionality of the Program or modified
> version remotely through a computer network, offering a service the value
> of which entirely or primarily derives from the value of the Program or
> modified version, or offering a service that accomplishes for users the
> primary purpose of the Program or modified version.
> > """
> >
> > Personally, I find the definition from 1.3 to be vague as "enabling
> third parties to interact with the functionality of the Program or modified
> version remotely through a computer network" or "offering a service the
> value of which entirely or primarily derives from the value of the Program
> or modified version" could really be interpreted a variety of ways. Not
> good.
> >
> > If you read "1.3 Offering the Program as a Service" from the Elastic
> perspective, that text makes some sense. They're trying to prevent AWS (and
> other cloud providers) from providing Elasticsearch as a managed service,
> as they think that the competition directly impacts their own managed
> service business. MongoDB created the SSPL licence and started using it in
> October 2018. Of course, it seems that Amazon just forked the last AGPL
> version of MongoDB to create Amazon DocumentDB in January 2019 (
> https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/new-amazon-documentdb-with-mongodb-compatibility-fast-scalable-and-highly-available/).
> Redis also changed some of its licensing a while ago:
> https://redislabs.com/legal/licenses/.
> >
> > But, at this point, I don't think there have been any legal cases that
> actually test the SSPL. But it's still early days.
> >
> > I suppose when considering products, we might want to consider the life
> of the product too. Here is a critical article on MongoDB's finances:
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2020/07/20/dont-chase-growth-with-mongodb/?sh=568631c64ef3.
> Perhaps the licence change won't be enough and they'll eventually be bought
> by a larger tech company.
> >
> > No idea.
> >
> > David Cook
> > Software Engineer
> > Prosentient Systems
> > Suite 7.03
> > 6a Glen St
> > Milsons Point NSW 2061
> > Australia
> >
> > Office: 02 9212 0899
> > Online: 02 8005 0595
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Koha-devel <koha-devel-bounces at lists.koha-community.org> On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Druart
> > Sent: Friday, 15 January 2021 10:22 PM
> > To: koha-devel <koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Koha-devel] Elasticsearch changing licences
> >
> > Thanks Thomas, great article.
> >
> > It's what I thought this morning when I read their FAQ and the license,
> they don't mean the same.
> >
> > The license clearly states:
> > """
> > If you make the functionality of the Program or a modified version
> available to third parties as a service, you must make the Service Source
> Code available via network download to everyone at no charge, under the
> terms of this License.
> > [...]
> > “Service Source Code” means the Corresponding Source for the Program or
> the modified version, and the Corresponding Source for all programs that
> you use to make the Program or modified version available as a service,
> including, without limitation, management software, user interfaces,
> application program interfaces, automation software, monitoring software,
> backup software, storage software and hosting software, all such that a
> user could run an instance of the service using the Service Source Code you
> make available.
> > """
> >
> > That's crazy!
> >
> > Le ven. 15 janv. 2021 à 11:47, Thomas Klausner <domm at plix.at> a écrit :
> >>
> >> Hi!
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:11:20AM +0000, Hugo Agud Andreu wrote:
> >>
> >>> as far as I have understood we still could use as ES license is
> >>> still open, tha changes only affects to those that change the code
> >>> of ES that they will be forced to publish their own developments, as
> >>> Koha only uses API and none code modification is done, then no
> >>> problem with ussing ES
> >>
> >> I haven't looked into the detail myself, but I know Vicky, and assume
> >> that she spend a fair shair of thinking before publishing this:
> >> https://anonymoushash.vmbrasseur.com/2021/01/14/elasticsearch-and-kib
> >> a
> >> na-are-now-business-risks
> >>
> >> I'm using ES in a few projects, so I will have to consider if I just
> >> freeze ES at the current version, and/or look for some alternatives
> >> in the future. Or maybe they won't go through with the new license?
> >> Or maybe it will be clarified how the license actually affects
> >> projects just using ES.
> >>
> >> Greetings,
> >> domm
> >>
> >> --
> >> #!/usr/bin/perl                              http://domm.plix.at
> >> for(ref bless{},just'another'perl'hacker){s-:+-$"-g&&print$_.$/}
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Koha-devel mailing list
> >> Koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org
> >> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> >> website : https://www.koha-community.org/ git :
> >> https://git.koha-community.org/ bugs :
> >> https://bugs.koha-community.org/
> > _______________________________________________
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> > https://git.koha-community.org/ bugs :
> > https://bugs.koha-community.org/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
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> > https://git.koha-community.org/ bugs :
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> >
> >
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> >
>
> --
> Zeno Tajoli
> System Librarian
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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