Re: [Koha-translate] Arabic manual 38
I don't know anything about po - all I know is that the manual is in Docbook and when I push changes to it those are converted to HTML with a script on the server for display. If another set up is necessary, we'll need to discuss hat that requires. For me the best place to start in the 3.8 manual and submit patches to the docbook file to me via this list. Then once you have the 3.8 manual translated you can use that as the base for the 3.10 manual (at least that's what I do). Nicole On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:16 AM, Karam Qubsi <karamqubsi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all
Thanks Nicole I test it locally and it looks good , and i found the way to convert it to html :) (and to po)
but I'm puzzled a little
where is the best to start ? in translating the 3.8 manual ( because it is maybe stable more than 3.10)
or work in 3.10 to make the next koha version full in Arabic (manuals and system)
so please advice .
and one more point , I've found a tool that convert (docbook) format to po and we can translate it from there
it is more easy to translate
If there is flaws in this solution please let me know.
the attached file is the po generated from the manaul.xml (for 3.10) and it could be re convert to xml after translation
I used the gnome-doc-utils https://live.gnome.org/GnomeDocUtils/
"It includes xml2po tool which makes it easier to translate and keep up to date translations of documentation"
Hi Frédéric :)
Can we use the Pootle Server to translate manuals ? as a new project (not just for arabic )
I think to make koha more translatable we need to provide easy way to translate the system and the manuals I think the translator who used to translate in Pootle will find this more easier to translate the documentation
I wish you all happy times
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:48 PM, Nicole Engard <nengard@gmail.com> wrote:
Here's how it converted in 3.2 (http://manual.koha-community.org/3.2/ar/) does that look right? If so then your 3.8 manual should be A-OK. If you need to see the 3.2 manual it's in git.
Nicole
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Nicole Engard <nengard@gmail.com> wrote:
I need to check with someone about the script we use to convert XML to HTML ... I don't know the way it works or if it will work for your purposes. If anyone else on the list knows the answer I'd love to hear it.
Nicole
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Karam Qubsi <karamqubsi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi first I'm so sorry if I bother you with my questions.
I have try to translate some parts in the manual of koha 3.8 , and I finish editing some section in the first chapter
1. Administration 1. Global System Preferences 1.1. Acquisitions 100% 1.2. Administration 20%
with images from the English version ( I will later update images from the Arabic version )
so , I want to test my work in the web , and see if my work will look good in the manual web site
and I don't have experience about if I have to do some thing with my xml file to make the html result goes from right to left , or this will be done automatically ?
and I want to ask , If I have to start work in the koha 3.10 (better ) or working in koha 3.8 now (as what I'm doing) , and in the future we can update the changes and make it fit the koha 3.10 .
I wish you will batch my file as soon ad you can to see it
i'm sorry if i have to do something else to do batches so please guide me to the correct way
I know that not every one can send batches using git , so I attach the file here :)
and thanks for your helps :) Thank you for your patience
-- Karam Qubsi Koha Arab Translating Team http://koha.wikibrary.org/ Wikibrary for Arab Librarians http://wikibrary.org
-- Karam Qubsi Koha Arab Translating Team http://koha.wikibrary.org/ Wikibrary for Arab Librarians http://wikibrary.org
I think the idea of having po files for translating the manual is an interesting idea - because it means that when Nicole updates the manual, not the whole manual will have to be retranslated, but only the changed parts of it. If we keep the image names the same for each language, we could also have "translated" screenshots for each language. Git allows to see what has changed in the English manual between versions, but those changes are not reflected in the translated manuals. If someone wants to do a 1:1 translation, using po files make a lot of sense and it would lower the barrier for translating the manuals. Katrin
-----Original Message----- From: koha-translate-bounces@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:koha- translate-bounces@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Engard Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 4:21 PM To: Karam Qubsi Cc: Larry Baerveldt; Frédéric Demians; koha.ILS@groups.facebook.com; koha-docs@lists.koha-community.org; koha-translate@lists.koha- community.org Subject: Re: [Koha-translate] Arabic manual 38
I don't know anything about po - all I know is that the manual is in Docbook and when I push changes to it those are converted to HTML with a script on the server for display. If another set up is necessary, we'll need to discuss hat that requires.
For me the best place to start in the 3.8 manual and submit patches to the docbook file to me via this list. Then once you have the 3.8 manual translated you can use that as the base for the 3.10 manual (at least that's what I do).
Nicole
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:16 AM, Karam Qubsi <karamqubsi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all
Thanks Nicole I test it locally and it looks good , and i found the way to convert it to html :) (and to po)
but I'm puzzled a little
where is the best to start ? in translating the 3.8 manual ( because it is maybe stable more than 3.10)
or work in 3.10 to make the next koha version full in Arabic (manuals and system)
so please advice .
and one more point , I've found a tool that convert (docbook) format to po and we can translate it from there
it is more easy to translate
If there is flaws in this solution please let me know.
the attached file is the po generated from the manaul.xml (for 3.10) and it could be re convert to xml after translation
I used the gnome-doc-utils https://live.gnome.org/GnomeDocUtils/
"It includes xml2po tool which makes it easier to translate and keep up to date translations of documentation"
Hi Frédéric :)
Can we use the Pootle Server to translate manuals ? as a new project (not just for arabic )
I think to make koha more translatable we need to provide easy way to translate the system and the manuals I think the translator who used to translate in Pootle will find this more easier to translate the documentation
I wish you all happy times
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:48 PM, Nicole Engard <nengard@gmail.com> wrote:
Here's how it converted in 3.2 (http://manual.koha-community.org/3.2/ar/) does that look right? If so then your 3.8 manual should be A-OK. If you need to see the 3.2 manual it's in git.
Nicole
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Nicole Engard <nengard@gmail.com>
wrote:
I need to check with someone about the script we use to convert XML to HTML ... I don't know the way it works or if it will work for your purposes. If anyone else on the list knows the answer I'd love to hear it.
Nicole
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Karam Qubsi <karamqubsi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi first I'm so sorry if I bother you with my questions.
I have try to translate some parts in the manual of koha 3.8 , and I finish editing some section in the first chapter
1. Administration 1. Global System Preferences 1.1. Acquisitions 100% 1.2. Administration 20%
with images from the English version ( I will later update images from the Arabic version )
so , I want to test my work in the web , and see if my work will look good in the manual web site
and I don't have experience about if I have to do some thing with my xml file to make the html result goes from right to left , or this will be done automatically ?
and I want to ask , If I have to start work in the koha 3.10 (better ) or working in koha 3.8 now (as what I'm doing) , and in the future we can update the changes and make it fit the koha 3.10 .
I wish you will batch my file as soon ad you can to see it
i'm sorry if i have to do something else to do batches so please guide me to the correct way
I know that not every one can send batches using git , so I attach the file here :)
and thanks for your helps :) Thank you for your patience
-- Karam Qubsi Koha Arab Translating Team http://koha.wikibrary.org/ Wikibrary for Arab Librarians http://wikibrary.org
-- Karam Qubsi Koha Arab Translating Team http://koha.wikibrary.org/ Wikibrary for Arab Librarians http://wikibrary.org
_______________________________________________ Koha-translate mailing list Koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-translate website: www.koha-community.org git: git.koha-community.org bugs: bugs.koha-community.org
I think the idea of having po files for translating the manual is an interesting idea - because it means that when Nicole updates the manual, not the whole manual will have to be retranslated, but only the changed parts of it. If we keep the image names the same for each language, we could also have "translated" screenshots for each language.
Git allows to see what has changed in the English manual between versions, but those changes are not reflected in the translated manuals.
If someone wants to do a 1:1 translation, using po files make a lot of sense and it would lower the barrier for translating the manuals.
Agreed. This is a fantastic idea. Generating a po file from Docbook (and vice versa) is easy, and for 1:1 translations would be a great help. I think it would be much better to merge the translated Docbook into the git repository prior to releases, the way we do with Koha, rather than asking the translation teams to rewrite the manual every time something is pushed to the English. Regards, Jared -- Jared Camins-Esakov Bibliographer, C & P Bibliography Services, LLC (phone) +1 (917) 727-3445 (e-mail) jcamins@cpbibliography.com (web) http://www.cpbibliography.com/
Hi all :) thanks for your response I wish we can apply this as soon as possible and we can try this for the Arabic language my group is ready to work :) but the Question is , where we will work ? in the same Pootle Server , or that is not available ? if that is available , I wish you upload the pot and po files to the server If you want some guidelines you can use this guide it's very useful , and very easy : http://pwet.fr/man/linux/commandes/xml2po and I wish to start work with the the 3.8 manual as Nicole advice :) Thanks ^_^ Karam On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 7:20 PM, Jared Camins-Esakov < jcamins@cpbibliography.com> wrote:
I think the idea of having po files for translating the manual is an
interesting idea - because it means that when Nicole updates the manual, not the whole manual will have to be retranslated, but only the changed parts of it. If we keep the image names the same for each language, we could also have "translated" screenshots for each language.
Git allows to see what has changed in the English manual between versions, but those changes are not reflected in the translated manuals.
If someone wants to do a 1:1 translation, using po files make a lot of sense and it would lower the barrier for translating the manuals.
Agreed. This is a fantastic idea. Generating a po file from Docbook (and vice versa) is easy, and for 1:1 translations would be a great help. I think it would be much better to merge the translated Docbook into the git repository prior to releases, the way we do with Koha, rather than asking the translation teams to rewrite the manual every time something is pushed to the English.
Regards, Jared
-- Jared Camins-Esakov Bibliographer, C & P Bibliography Services, LLC (phone) +1 (917) 727-3445 (e-mail) jcamins@cpbibliography.com (web) http://www.cpbibliography.com/
Hi Karam,
but the Question is , where we will work ? in the same Pootle Server , or that is not available ?
Very possible.
if that is available , I wish you upload the pot and po files to the server If you want some guidelines you can use this guide it's very useful , and very easy :
Nothing hasn't been done yet in this direction. We have to validate that this workflow just works for us, test it, and document it. Things to do (at least): - A .pot file must be generated from DocBook XML file - One, or several, .po files must be generated from .pot file - After translation, a translated XML DocBook file must be generated from .po file, and original English DocBook - After original DocBook updates, a merging mechanism must allow to update .pot file, and .po files Who will do that job? You? the documentation manager? the translation manager? From my perspective, you are the best suited to start this project since you will be the first to benefit from its results. If this workflow proves to work for you, I'm sure the community will embrace it with enthusiasm and gratitude. Kind regards, -- Frédéric DEMIANS http://www.tamil.fr/u/fdemians.html
Hi Frédéric , OK I will start with this by generating the 3.8 .pot file and the .po (for Arabic right now to test ) and will give you feedback about this :) Karam On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Frédéric Demians <frederic@tamil.fr> wrote:
Hi Karam,
but the Question is , where we will work ? in the same Pootle Server , or that is not available ?
Very possible.
if that is available , I wish you upload the pot and po files to the server If you want some guidelines you can use this guide it's very useful , and very easy :
http://pwet.fr/man/linux/**commandes/xml2po<http://pwet.fr/man/linux/commandes/xml2po>
Nothing hasn't been done yet in this direction. We have to validate that this workflow just works for us, test it, and document it. Things to do (at least):
- A .pot file must be generated from DocBook XML file - One, or several, .po files must be generated from .pot file - After translation, a translated XML DocBook file must be generated from .po file, and original English DocBook - After original DocBook updates, a merging mechanism must allow to update .pot file, and .po files
Who will do that job? You? the documentation manager? the translation manager? From my perspective, you are the best suited to start this project since you will be the first to benefit from its results. If this workflow proves to work for you, I'm sure the community will embrace it with enthusiasm and gratitude.
Kind regards, -- Frédéric DEMIANS http://www.tamil.fr/u/**fdemians.html<http://www.tamil.fr/u/fdemians.html>
-- Karam Qubsi Koha Arab Translating Team http://koha.wikibrary.org/ Wikibrary for Arab Librarians http://wikibrary.org
Hi Karam, thank you for your work on this. I hope it works out and we can make this available for other languages soon too :) Katrin From: Karam Qubsi [mailto:karamqubsi@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 8:37 AM To: Frédéric Demians Cc: Jared Camins-Esakov; Fischer, Katrin; koha-docs@lists.koha-community.org; koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org; Nicole Engard Subject: Re: [Koha-translate] Arabic manual 38 Hi Frédéric , OK I will start with this by generating the 3.8 .pot file and the .po (for Arabic right now to test ) and will give you feedback about this :) Karam On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Frédéric Demians <frederic@tamil.fr> wrote: Hi Karam,
but the Question is , where we will work ? in the same Pootle Server , or that is not available ? Very possible.
if that is available , I wish you upload the pot and po files to the server If you want some guidelines you can use this guide it's very useful , and very easy :
http://pwet.fr/man/linux/commandes/xml2po Nothing hasn't been done yet in this direction. We have to validate that this workflow just works for us, test it, and document it. Things to do (at least):
- A .pot file must be generated from DocBook XML file - One, or several, .po files must be generated from .pot file - After translation, a translated XML DocBook file must be generated from .po file, and original English DocBook - After original DocBook updates, a merging mechanism must allow to update .pot file, and .po files Who will do that job? You? the documentation manager? the translation manager? From my perspective, you are the best suited to start this project since you will be the first to benefit from its results. If this workflow proves to work for you, I'm sure the community will embrace it with enthusiasm and gratitude. Kind regards, -- Frédéric DEMIANS http://www.tamil.fr/u/fdemians.html -- Karam Qubsi Koha Arab Translating Team http://koha.wikibrary.org/ Wikibrary for Arab Librarians http://wikibrary.org
Hi all Using "itstool" http://itstool.org we can do the following points that Frédéric talked about : - A .pot file can be generated from DocBook XML file by running : itstool -o manual.pot manual.xml - One, or several, .po files can be generated from .pot file I think by saving it as po files ar.po , fr.po , de.po .... - After translation, a translated XML DocBook file can be generated from .po file, and original English DocBook For this we have first to use *msgfmt* to generate mo file by running : msgfmt fr.po then a messages.mo will be generated using this mo file we can generate the xml file by running : itstool -m messages.mo -o fr/ manual.xml Then the translated docbook will be generated in the sub-folder /fr ( using msgmerge ) TO UPDATE - After original DocBook updates, a merging mechanism must allow to update .pot file, and .po files I think this will be similar to the process in the koha translation project I don't know how you do that exactly ( right now) but I think we have to generate a new pot file ( for the new version of the xml) and update the po files from the new POT file using : msgmerge -U fr.po manual.pot where : manual.pot is the new generated POT file and the fr.po is the translated po file in the previous version I hope you provide me with your assistance from your experience and thank you all Karam On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Frédéric Demians <frederic@tamil.fr> wrote:
Hi Karam,
but the Question is , where we will work ? in the same Pootle Server , or that is not available ?
Very possible.
if that is available , I wish you upload the pot and po files to the server If you want some guidelines you can use this guide it's very useful , and very easy :
http://pwet.fr/man/linux/**commandes/xml2po<http://pwet.fr/man/linux/commandes/xml2po>
Nothing hasn't been done yet in this direction. We have to validate that this workflow just works for us, test it, and document it. Things to do (at least):
- A .pot file must be generated from DocBook XML file - One, or several, .po files must be generated from .pot file - After translation, a translated XML DocBook file must be generated from .po file, and original English DocBook - After original DocBook updates, a merging mechanism must allow to update .pot file, and .po files
Who will do that job? You? the documentation manager? the translation manager? From my perspective, you are the best suited to start this project since you will be the first to benefit from its results. If this workflow proves to work for you, I'm sure the community will embrace it with enthusiasm and gratitude.
Kind regards, -- Frédéric DEMIANS http://www.tamil.fr/u/**fdemians.html<http://www.tamil.fr/u/fdemians.html>
I think the idea of having po files for translating the manual is an
interesting idea - because it means that when Nicole updates the manual, not the whole manual will have to be retranslated, but only the changed parts of it. If we keep the image names the same for each language, we could also have "translated" screenshots for each language.
Git allows to see what has changed in the English manual between versions, but those changes are not reflected in the translated manuals.
If someone wants to do a 1:1 translation, using po files make a lot of sense and it would lower the barrier for translating the manuals.
Agreed. This is a fantastic idea. Generating a po file from Docbook (and vice versa) is easy, and for 1:1 translations would be a great help. I think it would be much better to merge the translated Docbook into the git repository prior to releases, the way we do with Koha, rather than asking the translation teams to rewrite the manual every time something is pushed to the English.
I wrote a while ago (26-3-2010) on the same topic to Chris Cormak (he was translation manager, I think) ... I've been working on the translation of the 3.2 manual from some time, not too much lately because we are finishing the migration of almost all of the libraries of our university (hope we will finish in a month), but we plan to complete the translation eventually. Thanks to Nicole, the manual is a living thing and she does a great job, but every time she makes a change or adds something we are out of sync, then we need to search were in the english version she has made a change, and do the translation. The question is: Is it possible to apply to the manual the same procedure we have with the koha code? I mean, some procedure to generate a PO file from the manual, translate it and then generate the corresponding translated manual. Every time the English manual changes, then the PO file will have new, changed or deprecated strings, easier to found using pootle or poedit. ... It would be wonderful if this could be implemented. Bernardo
participants (6)
-
Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel -
Fischer, Katrin -
Frédéric Demians -
Jared Camins-Esakov -
Karam Qubsi -
Nicole Engard