Some best practice questions for an upcoming translation to Swedish
Dear all on the translate list We are planning to make a full translation of Koha during 2012/2013 and I need some help planning: · Is offline translation more effective? (Using poedit or similar is more streamlined, but Pootle seems to give some hints as to the context of strings that offline tools do not provide. Do you have any advice? · When should we translate to keep out of trouble with string freeze etc of new versions? I understand that Koha 3.10 should arrive 22 november. Would that give us six months of peace to translate the intranet? · How much translation work does a new .X version usually introduce? Is translating 3.10 the best idea when go-live is something like spring 2013 or should we translate 3.12 instead? Kind regards /Viktor Sarge ________________________________ [Beskrivning: Region Halland] Viktor Sarge Utvecklingsledare Kulturavdelningen Regionkontoret TFN: 035-17 98 73 E-POST: Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se BESÖKSADRESS: Södra vägen 9, 30238 Halmstad www.regionhalland.se<http://www.regionhalland.se>
Hi! My twocents here, i hope it helps, · **Is offline translation more effective? - depends on your habits and whole work flow idea. I, working alone on en->fi here, have found both quite similar in my eyes.
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**· **When should we translate to keep out of trouble with string freeze etc of new versions? I understand that Koha 3.10 should arrive 22 november. Would that give us six months of peace to translate the intranet?
- That might be a good idea. Anyway the new translation project inherits something like 80% from the old version. And preferences can also be translated while waiting. And then when you get the terminology sorted in intranet, translating OPAC for patron's eyes is already right on tested, solid ground.
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**· **How much translation work does a new .X version usually introduce? Is translating 3.10 the best idea when go-live is something like spring 2013 or should we translate 3.12 instead?****
In my shallow experience, something like 20% The main problem in translation schedule is of course that you dont get the new files to translate until the new version is ready!! :) Basically translate always the newest avilable, because the new templates for future versions are drawn from those. That way the work done won't get lost. UNLESS of course you for some reason have decided to hold onto a certain version number.
**
Kind regards****
Thanks, likewise! I am glad to find you here. Keep up the good worrk! -- kirjastonhoitaja-kulttuurisihteeri mr. Kari Blomster Hailuodon kunnankirjasto / Luovontie 61 / 90480 HAILUOTO / kirjasto@hailuoto.fi / puh. +358444973565 / avoinna ti 10-16, ke 14-20, pe 14-20. * Kotisivut: http://www.hailuoto.fi/sivu/fi/kuntapalvelut/perus/Sivistyspalvelut/kirjasto... * Kuvablogi: http://www.flickr.com/photos/luovonkirjastonhoitaja/ * @Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Hailuodon-kirjasto-Hailuoto-Public-Library/...
/Viktor Sarge**** ------------------------------
[image: Beskrivning: Region Halland]****
*Viktor* *Sarge* Utvecklingsledare Kulturavdelningen Regionkontoret****
*TFN: *035-17 98 73* E-POST: *Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se* BESÖKSADRESS: *Södra vägen 9*, *30238* *Halmstad* *www.regionhalland.se****
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_______________________________________________ Koha-translate mailing list Koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-translate website: www.koha-community.org git: git.koha-community.org bugs: bugs.koha-community.org
Hi, I think always starting translations with the newest version available is good advice. Those files will get updated for the next version, 3.x or 3.x.x. You can update the files yourself too, if you want to start translations for 3.10 earlier. But because the template files are still changing until string freeze, it’s possible that some strings go fuzzy again or need to be retranslated. To update files you need a branch/installation with current master. Change into the /misc/translator directory and run: perl translate update <languagecode> To install the files for testing you can run: perl translate install <languagecode> In my experience working offline with editors like Poedit can help for search/replace operations, because search works a bit better there. I also use the Poedit to find possible problems in the files, like missing placeholders %s. If you work in a team, Pootle is better, because more people can work at the same time and there is no confusion about file versions. I am not sure what to suggest about the timeframe for translating. It’s more or less a never ending task, as Koha moves on fast and we change the templates and add new features all the time. String freezes and such are important when you want your files to be included in the release, but you can also finish the translation a bit later and download the files from Pootle manually. You only have to be a bit careful, because the files get updated with every bugfix release, so they always match the current stable release. How many translations you have to do for each version varies. OPAC and prefs are normally not so much, staff can be quite a lot. The hardest part in my experience are the help files that are included in the staff po file - I have hope that we will find a better solution for this sometime in the future. Hope this helps, Katrin From: koha-translate-bounces@lists.koha-community.org [mailto:koha-translate-bounces@lists.koha-community.org] On Behalf Of Hailuodon Kunnankirjasto Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:41 AM To: Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se Cc: Koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org Subject: Re: [Koha-translate] Some best practice questions for an upcoming translation to Swedish Hi! My twocents here, i hope it helps, · Is offline translation more effective? - depends on your habits and whole work flow idea. I, working alone on en->fi here, have found both quite similar in my eyes. · When should we translate to keep out of trouble with string freeze etc of new versions? I understand that Koha 3.10 should arrive 22 november. Would that give us six months of peace to translate the intranet? - That might be a good idea. Anyway the new translation project inherits something like 80% from the old version. And preferences can also be translated while waiting. And then when you get the terminology sorted in intranet, translating OPAC for patron's eyes is already right on tested, solid ground. · How much translation work does a new .X version usually introduce? Is translating 3.10 the best idea when go-live is something like spring 2013 or should we translate 3.12 instead? In my shallow experience, something like 20% The main problem in translation schedule is of course that you dont get the new files to translate until the new version is ready!! :) Basically translate always the newest avilable, because the new templates for future versions are drawn from those. That way the work done won't get lost. UNLESS of course you for some reason have decided to hold onto a certain version number. Kind regards Thanks, likewise! I am glad to find you here. Keep up the good worrk! -- kirjastonhoitaja-kulttuurisihteeri mr. Kari Blomster Hailuodon kunnankirjasto / Luovontie 61 / 90480 HAILUOTO / kirjasto@hailuoto.fi / puh. +358444973565 / avoinna ti 10-16, ke 14-20, pe 14-20. * Kotisivut: http://www.hailuoto.fi/sivu/fi/kuntapalvelut/perus/Sivistyspalvelut/kirjasto... * Kuvablogi: http://www.flickr.com/photos/luovonkirjastonhoitaja/ * @Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Hailuodon-kirjasto-Hailuoto-Public-Library/... /Viktor Sarge ________________________________ Viktor Sarge Utvecklingsledare Kulturavdelningen Regionkontoret TFN: 035-17 98 73 E-POST: Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se BESÖKSADRESS: Södra vägen 9, 30238 Halmstad www.regionhalland.se _______________________________________________ Koha-translate mailing list Koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-translate website: www.koha-community.org git: git.koha-community.org bugs: bugs.koha-community.org
Thanks for the help! All the info is helping me shape a plan on this: Translating 3.10 seems to be the way to go and I think we will stick with just getting the opac up to date for the official release. Staff will be done during winter/spring and then just updating the new stuff to have 3.12 ship with a “complete” translation. I did notice that you need to keep it up to date – we did the Opac a while back and new versions takes its toll on the translation. I saw your idea to split the .po files to separate the interface and the help texts. I like it as it would help prioritizing the stuff people use every day. How much work would it be, and who decides? It did help :) Kind regards! /Viktor Sarge ________________________________ [Beskrivning: Region Halland] Viktor Sarge Utvecklingsledare Kulturavdelningen Regionkontoret TFN: 035-17 98 73 E-POST: Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se BESÖKSADRESS: Södra vägen 9, 30238 Halmstad www.regionhalland.se<http://www.regionhalland.se> Från: Fischer, Katrin [mailto:Katrin.Fischer@bsz-bw.de] Skickat: den 20 augusti 2012 11:29 Till: Hailuodon Kunnankirjasto; Sarge Viktor RK Kopia: Koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org Ämne: RE: [Koha-translate] Some best practice questions for an upcoming translation to Swedish Hi, I think always starting translations with the newest version available is good advice. Those files will get updated for the next version, 3.x or 3.x.x. You can update the files yourself too, if you want to start translations for 3.10 earlier. But because the template files are still changing until string freeze, it’s possible that some strings go fuzzy again or need to be retranslated. To update files you need a branch/installation with current master. Change into the /misc/translator directory and run: perl translate update <languagecode> To install the files for testing you can run: perl translate install <languagecode> In my experience working offline with editors like Poedit can help for search/replace operations, because search works a bit better there. I also use the Poedit to find possible problems in the files, like missing placeholders %s. If you work in a team, Pootle is better, because more people can work at the same time and there is no confusion about file versions. I am not sure what to suggest about the timeframe for translating. It’s more or less a never ending task, as Koha moves on fast and we change the templates and add new features all the time. String freezes and such are important when you want your files to be included in the release, but you can also finish the translation a bit later and download the files from Pootle manually. You only have to be a bit careful, because the files get updated with every bugfix release, so they always match the current stable release. How many translations you have to do for each version varies. OPAC and prefs are normally not so much, staff can be quite a lot. The hardest part in my experience are the help files that are included in the staff po file - I have hope that we will find a better solution for this sometime in the future. Hope this helps, Katrin From: koha-translate-bounces@lists.koha-community.org<mailto:koha-translate-bounces@lists.koha-community.org> [mailto:koha-translate-bounces@lists.koha-community.org]<mailto:[mailto:koha-translate-bounces@lists.koha-community.org]> On Behalf Of Hailuodon Kunnankirjasto Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:41 AM To: Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se<mailto:Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se> Cc: Koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org<mailto:Koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org> Subject: Re: [Koha-translate] Some best practice questions for an upcoming translation to Swedish Hi! My twocents here, i hope it helps, · Is offline translation more effective? - depends on your habits and whole work flow idea. I, working alone on en->fi here, have found both quite similar in my eyes. · When should we translate to keep out of trouble with string freeze etc of new versions? I understand that Koha 3.10 should arrive 22 november. Would that give us six months of peace to translate the intranet? - That might be a good idea. Anyway the new translation project inherits something like 80% from the old version. And preferences can also be translated while waiting. And then when you get the terminology sorted in intranet, translating OPAC for patron's eyes is already right on tested, solid ground. · How much translation work does a new .X version usually introduce? Is translating 3.10 the best idea when go-live is something like spring 2013 or should we translate 3.12 instead? In my shallow experience, something like 20% The main problem in translation schedule is of course that you dont get the new files to translate until the new version is ready!! :) Basically translate always the newest avilable, because the new templates for future versions are drawn from those. That way the work done won't get lost. UNLESS of course you for some reason have decided to hold onto a certain version number. Kind regards Thanks, likewise! I am glad to find you here. Keep up the good worrk! -- kirjastonhoitaja-kulttuurisihteeri mr. Kari Blomster Hailuodon kunnankirjasto / Luovontie 61 / 90480 HAILUOTO / kirjasto@hailuoto.fi<mailto:kirjasto@hailuoto.fi> / puh. +358444973565 / avoinna ti 10-16, ke 14-20, pe 14-20. * Kotisivut: http://www.hailuoto.fi/sivu/fi/kuntapalvelut/perus/Sivistyspalvelut/kirjasto... * Kuvablogi: http://www.flickr.com/photos/luovonkirjastonhoitaja/ * @Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Hailuodon-kirjasto-Hailuoto-Public-Library/... /Viktor Sarge ________________________________ [Beskrivning: Region Halland] Viktor Sarge Utvecklingsledare Kulturavdelningen Regionkontoret TFN: 035-17 98 73 E-POST: Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se<http://d.se> BESÖKSADRESS: Södra vägen 9, 30238 Halmstad www.regionhalland.se<http://www.regionhalland.se> _______________________________________________ Koha-translate mailing list Koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org<mailto:Koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-translate website: www.koha-community.org<http://www.koha-community.org> git: git.koha-community.org<http://git.koha-community.org> bugs: bugs.koha-community.org<http://bugs.koha-community.org>
Thanks for the help! It seems to me that we will have to accept that a first time translation might be too much work to handle between string freeze and the release. So having Koha ship with a full translation included might have to wait until 3.12 even if we translate 3.10. Nice to see a Finnish colleague! You have some really sweet libraries over there :) Kind regards! /Viktor Sarge ________________________________ [Beskrivning: Region Halland] Viktor Sarge Utvecklingsledare Kulturavdelningen Regionkontoret TFN: 035-17 98 73 E-POST: Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se BESÖKSADRESS: Södra vägen 9, 30238 Halmstad www.regionhalland.se<http://www.regionhalland.se> Från: Hailuodon Kunnankirjasto [mailto:m.kirjasto.hailuoto@gmail.com] Skickat: den 20 augusti 2012 10:41 Till: Sarge Viktor RK Kopia: Koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org Ämne: Re: [Koha-translate] Some best practice questions for an upcoming translation to Swedish Hi! My twocents here, i hope it helps, · Is offline translation more effective? - depends on your habits and whole work flow idea. I, working alone on en->fi here, have found both quite similar in my eyes. · When should we translate to keep out of trouble with string freeze etc of new versions? I understand that Koha 3.10 should arrive 22 november. Would that give us six months of peace to translate the intranet? - That might be a good idea. Anyway the new translation project inherits something like 80% from the old version. And preferences can also be translated while waiting. And then when you get the terminology sorted in intranet, translating OPAC for patron's eyes is already right on tested, solid ground. · How much translation work does a new .X version usually introduce? Is translating 3.10 the best idea when go-live is something like spring 2013 or should we translate 3.12 instead? In my shallow experience, something like 20% The main problem in translation schedule is of course that you dont get the new files to translate until the new version is ready!! :) Basically translate always the newest avilable, because the new templates for future versions are drawn from those. That way the work done won't get lost. UNLESS of course you for some reason have decided to hold onto a certain version number. Kind regards Thanks, likewise! I am glad to find you here. Keep up the good worrk! -- kirjastonhoitaja-kulttuurisihteeri mr. Kari Blomster Hailuodon kunnankirjasto / Luovontie 61 / 90480 HAILUOTO / kirjasto@hailuoto.fi<mailto:kirjasto@hailuoto.fi> / puh. +358444973565 / avoinna ti 10-16, ke 14-20, pe 14-20. * Kotisivut: http://www.hailuoto.fi/sivu/fi/kuntapalvelut/perus/Sivistyspalvelut/kirjasto... * Kuvablogi: http://www.flickr.com/photos/luovonkirjastonhoitaja/ * @Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Hailuodon-kirjasto-Hailuoto-Public-Library/... /Viktor Sarge ________________________________ [Beskrivning: Region Halland] Viktor Sarge Utvecklingsledare Kulturavdelningen Regionkontoret TFN: 035-17 98 73 E-POST: Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se<http://d.se> BESÖKSADRESS: Södra vägen 9, 30238 Halmstad www.regionhalland.se<http://www.regionhalland.se> _______________________________________________ Koha-translate mailing list Koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org<mailto:Koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org> http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-translate website: www.koha-community.org<http://www.koha-community.org> git: git.koha-community.org<http://git.koha-community.org> bugs: bugs.koha-community.org<http://bugs.koha-community.org>
Ok. Thanks! Magnus made good points here and as I FINALLY got to look at the Lokalize http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Translating_Koha tool, I'm glad to be sure and say: imo the Best, of the forementioned two. Be sure to give it out as an option for translators. I am going to 'koha' (gift) you with installations of se & no-bokmål translations (as partial as they are) in our next update, and hope that you'll do the same for me next time around. Hoping to get it 3.8 (because of it's API, socialmedia implementations), but this depends on how much delay gives me time to finish the fi-FI 3.8 "opac+pref" files. I have been myself delayed bc the lack of test benches. I think one can see the translation properly only as it lives on some demo. --- Our regional lib head just visited Joensuu eastern finland where Ministery of Edu has had a large project where OS ILS's Koha and eVERGREEn have been benched to find out n evaluate their performance and technical features. If any of you have a special interest towards Joensuu project, I am glad to fwd your inquiries via this thread. In fact I shall get back to this Joensuu affair after we have our fall regional info meeting. They promised to inform us there. cheers! n have a good, inspired day, t. K.Blomster 2012/8/29 <Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se>
Thanks for the help! ****
** **
It seems to me that we will have to accept that a first time translation might be too much work to handle between string freeze and the release. So having Koha ship with a full translation included might have to wait until 3.12 even if we translate 3.10. ****
** **
Nice to see a Finnish colleague! You have some really sweet libraries over there :)****
** **
Kind regards!****
/Viktor Sarge ****
** ** ------------------------------
[image: Beskrivning: Region Halland]****
*Viktor* *Sarge* Utvecklingsledare Kulturavdelningen Regionkontoret****
*TFN: *035-17 98 73* E-POST: *Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se* BESÖKSADRESS: *Södra vägen 9*, *30238* *Halmstad* *www.regionhalland.se****
****
*Från:* Hailuodon Kunnankirjasto [mailto:m.kirjasto.hailuoto@gmail.com] *Skickat:* den 20 augusti 2012 10:41 *Till:* Sarge Viktor RK *Kopia:* Koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org
*Ämne:* Re: [Koha-translate] Some best practice questions for an upcoming translation to Swedish****
** **
Hi! My twocents here, i hope it helps,
· Is offline translation more effective? - depends on your habits and whole work flow idea. I, working alone on en->fi here, have found both quite similar in my eyes. ****
· When should we translate to keep out of trouble with string freeze etc of new versions? I understand that Koha 3.10 should arrive 22 november. Would that give us six months of peace to translate the intranet?****
- That might be a good idea. Anyway the new translation project inherits something like 80% from the old version. And preferences can also be translated while waiting. And then when you get the terminology sorted in intranet, translating OPAC for patron's eyes is already right on tested, solid ground. ****
· How much translation work does a new .X version usually introduce? Is translating 3.10 the best idea when go-live is something like spring 2013 or should we translate 3.12 instead?****
In my shallow experience, something like 20% The main problem in translation schedule is of course that you dont get the new files to translate until the new version is ready!! :) Basically translate always the newest avilable, because the new templates for future versions are drawn from those. That way the work done won't get lost. UNLESS of course you for some reason have decided to hold onto a certain version number. ** **
****
Kind regards****
Thanks, likewise! I am glad to find you here. Keep up the good worrk!
-- kirjastonhoitaja-kulttuurisihteeri mr. Kari Blomster
Hailuodon kunnankirjasto / Luovontie 61 / 90480 HAILUOTO / kirjasto@hailuoto.fi / puh. +358444973565 / avoinna ti 10-16, ke 14-20, pe 14-20.
* Kotisivut: http://www.hailuoto.fi/sivu/fi/kuntapalvelut/perus/Sivistyspalvelut/kirjasto... * Kuvablogi: http://www.flickr.com/photos/luovonkirjastonhoitaja/ * @Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Hailuodon-kirjasto-Hailuoto-Public-Library/... ****
/Viktor Sarge**** ------------------------------
[image: Beskrivning: Region Halland]****
*Viktor* *Sarge* Utvecklingsledare Kulturavdelningen Regionkontoret****
*TFN: *035-17 98 73* E-POST: *Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se* BESÖKSADRESS: *Södra vägen 9*, *30238* *Halmstad* *www.regionhalland.se****
****
_______________________________________________ Koha-translate mailing list Koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-translate website: www.koha-community.org git: git.koha-community.org bugs: bugs.koha-community.org****
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_______________________________________________ Koha-translate mailing list Koha-translate@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-translate website: www.koha-community.org git: git.koha-community.org bugs: bugs.koha-community.org
On 17 August 2012 11:47, <Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se> wrote:
· Is offline translation more effective? (Using poedit or similar is more streamlined, but Pootle seems to give some hints as to the context of strings that offline tools do not provide. Do you have any advice?
I have used Lokalize (on Ubuntu) to good effect. It shows the paths of the files strings originate from, so it makes it easy to skip strings from the help files, MARC dialects you are never going to use etc. With a desktop program it's also super fast to do things like go through fuzzy strings that does not need changing. But if more people are collaborating, using Pootle is probably a good idea, since you will not have problems with people translating the same strings twice, overwriting changes made by others etc. Best regards, Magnus libriotech.no
participants (4)
-
Fischer, Katrin -
Hailuodon Kunnankirjasto -
Magnus Enger -
Viktor.Sarge＠regionhalland.se