[Koha-devel] Architectural goals for 3.16

Wed Dec 11 19:25:42 CET 2013

At 11:33 PM 12/11/2013 +1300, Chris Cormack wrote:
>* Mathieu Saby (mathieu.saby at univ-rennes2.fr) wrote:
> > Hi
> > Do you know what is the share of FF 3.6 and IE 7 in Nigeria,
> > Philippines, Pakistan or Turkey?
> > I suppose that people in those countries probably can't afford to
> > change computers as soon as here...
> >
> > By the way, my university is still using Windows XP, so it is not
> > "dangerous" (but of course we plan to change OS in 2014)
> > And 1 year ago, the FF standard version insalled on staff computers
> > was 3.6! (Now it is 10 or 17, I don't remember)
> > From what I understood (that's not my part ;-) ), using fresher
> > version of FF was not an easy task for our IT department, because FF
> > was virtualized, and the older versions are somehow "lighter" than
> > the recent ones.
> >
>
>You're right, lets give it another 7 years before we upgrade (october
>2006 it was released).

Hi Chris -- let's not go overboard, I think that Mathieu was just thinking 
along the same lines that I attempted to express. That is, that while many 
of us are {inquisitive|priveleged|advanced|funded|?} enough to try and 
follow future trends, coding, methodology, and that our intentions are 
purely to improve the "Koha experience", the aim of Koha is to make library 
catalogues available to as many end-users as possible, "education of the 
world's ordinary citizens" if you will. The "cutting edge" is fine, but is 
not necessarily available to "the masses." (and that doesn't mean that IE6 
is at all relevant!)

The other (in my mind anyway) point that I fear we are overlooking, is that 
this "browser" discussion started with Bootstrap v3 -- and all of this is 
just an expanded CSS usage for cosmetic purposes - rounded corners on 
boxes, etc, - but might be more relevant to mobile usage.

When I do a CSS "check"[1] on our OPAC, I find "Sorry! We found the 
following errors (289)" and they're {mostly} .yui related, and they don't 
appear to make diddly difference in any browser I have access to (FF3.6, 
FF21, FF25, IE8, Chrome16, Safari5.1, Opera11).

Does anyone know of anything that would actually break the OPAC or 
otherwise render it unusable or unsafe in *any* browser if Bootstrap 3 were 
introduced?

tnx + br - paul

[1] 
<http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css21&warning=0&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fopac.navalmarinearchive.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fkoha%2Fopac-main.pl>

>Chris
>PS I wrote this using ae on my machine running linux 1.0.

P.S. I still have a fully functional Seaqua (two! 5 1/4 floppies, one for 
the o/s, one for data) that runs MS-DOS 1.03) but it only has 64K RAM, so 
couldn't run Windows when BG/MS introduced it in 1984  --  and when I built 
our current production server last year (8 x i7 cores) it was "top end" but 
is now surpassed ;={

>
>
> > Mathieu
> >
> >
> > Le 11/12/2013 02:56, Paul A a écrit :
> > >At 09:59 AM 12/11/2013 +1300, Liz Rea wrote:
> > >
> > >>On 11/12/13 05:40, Owen Leonard wrote:
> > >>>> [4] Upgrade the version of Bootstrap we use to 3.x.
> > >>> As I mentioned in IRC today the primary caveat for this goal is that
> > >>> Bootstrap 3 says it "drops support for Internet Explorer 7 and Firefox
> > >>> 3.6." However, it doesn't explicitly say what "dropping support"
> > >>> means. If it means broken functionality, that is a problem for us. If
> > >>> it means graceful degradation, that's more acceptable. I'll be doing
> > >>> some investigation, but I think we need some opinions from others
> > >>> about what level of support we need to offer for IE7 and FF 3.6.
> > >>>
> > >>>  -- Owen
> > >>>
> > >>(this is only my opinion, since you asked.)
> > >
> > >Mine too (and we're "small" so maybe near the bottom end of the
> > >relevancy scale.)
> > >
> > >>IE 7 is only available in Windows XP, which is due to be end of life in
> > >>April 2014.
> > >
> > >First, I really have no opinion on IE 7 thru 10 -- I do read the
> > >stats on "market share", and I do have access (for webpage
> > >verification purposes) of IE8, but that's it...
> > >
> > >>Any changes we make for this cycle won't be released until
> > >>after XP is EOL. [snip] XP is an outdated, and dangerous
> > >>operating system to be
> > >>running.
> > >
> > >We're all entitled to our opinions and I respect yours. However
> > >XPPro SP2,[1] properly set up (with a *user* account, never go
> > >on-line with admin privileges) is not "dangerous."  EOL, maybe,
> > >but I feel that Koha is gaining ground in (excuse me if I'm not
> > >PC) less developed countries where quite frankly older o/s abound
> > >for whatever reasons.
> > >
> > >Upgrading Koha to deny XP (and I'm not at all sure that's what's
> > >being proposed) might be cutting off our noses to spite our face.
> > >
> > >>It should be noted that it was discovered that bootstrap 3 sites, though
> > >>not officially supported in FF 3.6, still seem to look and work OK.
> > >
> > >For the record, I still have (no time to rebuild) half a dozen
> > >"kiosks" that run FF3.6 under Win98SE (despite a whole bunch of
> > >misinformation that it's not possible) -- the Koha OPAC is
> > >visually perfect (3.8.5 near standard OPAC CSS) and very fast.
> > >YMMV.
> > >
> > >Bottom line: bootstrap 3 is probably the right way to go, and
> > >sooner rather than later ... but let's not forget that there are
> > >probably hundreds of thousands, if not potentially millions, of
> > >KohaOPAC users who are not as "up to date" with their boxes as we
> > >might be...
> > >
> > >Best regards,
> > >Paul
> > >[1] I have two boxes running XPPro, installed 2001, upgraded SP2
> > >2004 (both running IE8 since 2009). They have never, ever failed
> > >in 12 years -- "bullet-proof" is a term that comes to mind. Note
> > >that I have never used Vista, Win7 or Win8.
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Koha-devel mailing list
> > >Koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org
> > >http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> > >website : http://www.koha-community.org/
> > >git : http://git.koha-community.org/
> > >bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mathieu Saby
> > Service d'Informatique Documentaire
> > Service Commun de Documentation
> > Université Rennes 2
> > Téléphone : 02 99 14 12 65
> > Courriel : mathieu.saby at univ-rennes2.fr
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org
> > http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
> > website : http://www.koha-community.org/
> > git : http://git.koha-community.org/
> > bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
>
>--
>Chris Cormack
>Catalyst IT Ltd.
>+64 4 803 2238
>PO Box 11-053, Manners St, Wellington 6142, New Zealand
>
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