availability of a reserved item
Hello, If I don't mind, a book that has a hold on it is, in koha 3.0, displayed as "available" in OPAC. That sound strange, and a bug to me. Am I missing something, or does it have to be fixed ? -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc NOUVEAU TELEPHONE : 04 91 81 35 08
I agree! It should say that it's not available or that it's on hold. Seems like a bug - or a feature that was never implemented. --- Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/ On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Paul POULAIN <paul.poulain@free.fr> wrote:
Hello,
If I don't mind, a book that has a hold on it is, in koha 3.0, displayed as "available" in OPAC. That sound strange, and a bug to me.
Am I missing something, or does it have to be fixed ? -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc NOUVEAU TELEPHONE : 04 91 81 35 08 _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:20 AM, Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
I agree! It should say that it's not available or that it's on hold. Seems like a bug - or a feature that was never implemented. Really? To me it's an issue of semantics -- what does 'available' mean in this context? For instance, it's available for hold right? That is, it's not lost, missing or withdrawn ...
Do libraries want the exact status of the item to be visible to their patrons? Based on conversations I've had, there doesn't seem to be any consensus on what exactly the statuses should be called, and which of the statuses should display to patrons. Josh
---
Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard
http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Paul POULAIN <paul.poulain@free.fr> wrote:
Hello,
If I don't mind, a book that has a hold on it is, in koha 3.0, displayed as "available" in OPAC. That sound strange, and a bug to me.
Am I missing something, or does it have to be fixed ? -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc NOUVEAU TELEPHONE : 04 91 81 35 08 _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
-- Joshua Ferraro SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE CEO migration, training, maintenance, support LibLime Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS jmf@liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS
Really? To me it's an issue of semantics -- what does 'available' mean in this context? For instance, it's available for hold right? That is, it's not lost, missing or withdrawn ...
I would expect the OPAC to list items as being on reserve. That's what our dev_week installation shows for items which aren't checked out but which have holds. The convention here has always been that "available" means "on the shelf and available for checkout." The only sense in which a not-checked-out and on-hold book is "available" is in a situation where the patron found it on the shelf before we pulled it to fill the reserve. They could then bring it up to be checked out and we would have to override the hold. -- Owen -- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
Joshua Ferraro a écrit :
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:20 AM, Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
I agree! It should say that it's not available or that it's on hold. Seems like a bug - or a feature that was never implemented. Really? To me it's an issue of semantics -- what does 'available' mean in this context? For instance, it's available for hold right? That is, it's not lost, missing or withdrawn ...
In OPAC, patrons understand "Available" by :"I can come to the library & get the book" (either for reading in the library, or issuing) If the book is on hold, then it's no more possible : the item is on the shelves of books waiting to be picked-up by the patron who holded it. If a patron want to put a hold on OPAC, he will be warned that he will be the 2nd to put an hold on this book. It's an acceptable workaround (although not long term) But if the patron look at OPAC, see "available", and come to the library... he will discover that the book is not really available... -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc NOUVEAU TELEPHONE : 04 91 81 35 08
I like Josh's suggestion along with Pauls - on shelf/on hold David Schuster Paul POULAIN-2 wrote:
Joshua Ferraro a écrit :
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:20 AM, Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
I agree! It should say that it's not available or that it's on hold. Seems like a bug - or a feature that was never implemented. Really? To me it's an issue of semantics -- what does 'available' mean in this context? For instance, it's available for hold right? That is, it's not lost, missing or withdrawn ...
In OPAC, patrons understand "Available" by :"I can come to the library & get the book" (either for reading in the library, or issuing)
If the book is on hold, then it's no more possible : the item is on the shelves of books waiting to be picked-up by the patron who holded it.
If a patron want to put a hold on OPAC, he will be warned that he will be the 2nd to put an hold on this book. It's an acceptable workaround (although not long term) But if the patron look at OPAC, see "available", and come to the library... he will discover that the book is not really available...
-- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc NOUVEAU TELEPHONE : 04 91 81 35 08 _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/availability-of-a-reserved-item-tp20225330p20239843.ht... Sent from the Koha - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I know our patrons are confused by "available". We've had more then one patron come in to pick up an item that the OPAC said was available only to discover that the book was on the hold shelf for another patron an they could not take it out. How about something like "not currently on shelf". We try to give our patrons the best customer service possible so I'm for giving them more complete information. Susan Bennett ILS System Administrator Geauga County Public Library 440 286-6811 x 125 440 286-7419 FAX On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:25 AM, Joshua Ferraro <jmf@liblime.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:20 AM, Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
I agree! It should say that it's not available or that it's on hold. Seems like a bug - or a feature that was never implemented. Really? To me it's an issue of semantics -- what does 'available' mean in this context? For instance, it's available for hold right? That is, it's not lost, missing or withdrawn ...
Do libraries want the exact status of the item to be visible to their patrons? Based on conversations I've had, there doesn't seem to be any consensus on what exactly the statuses should be called, and which of the statuses should display to patrons.
Josh
---
Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard
http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Paul POULAIN <paul.poulain@free.fr>
wrote:
Hello,
If I don't mind, a book that has a hold on it is, in koha 3.0, displayed as "available" in OPAC. That sound strange, and a bug to me.
Am I missing something, or does it have to be fixed ? -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc NOUVEAU TELEPHONE : 04 91 81 35 08 _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
-- Joshua Ferraro SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE CEO migration, training, maintenance, support LibLime Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS jmf@liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS _______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
I know our patrons are confused by "available". We've had more then one patron come in to pick up an item that the OPAC said was available only to discover that the book was on the hold shelf for another patron an they could not take it out. How about something like "not currently on shelf".
Susan, do you suggest "not currently on shelf" because you don't want to show that the item is on hold? We used "not on shelf" at one time and found that it too was confusing for patrons, being so ambiguous. -- Owen -- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
Owen Leonard a écrit :
I know our patrons are confused by "available". We've had more then one patron come in to pick up an item that the OPAC said was available only to discover that the book was on the hold shelf for another patron an they could not take it out. How about something like "not currently on shelf".
Susan, do you suggest "not currently on shelf" because you don't want to show that the item is on hold? We used "not on shelf" at one time and found that it too was confusing for patrons, being so ambiguous.
In the french translation, we have replaced "disponible" (=available) by "en rayon" (on shelves), as patrons find "disponible" confusing when a book is available but can't be issued + some other "strange" cases. The "en rayon" is really clear we think : it doesn't mean anything on the "issuability" of the item, it just means the book is on the library ! -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc NOUVEAU TELEPHONE : 04 91 81 35 08
Good point- "On hold" would be less confusing for patrons. Susan Bennett ILS System Administrator Geauga County Public Library 440 286-6811 x 125 440 286-7419 FAX On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:41 AM, Owen Leonard <oleonard@myacpl.org> wrote:
I know our patrons are confused by "available". We've had more then one patron come in to pick up an item that the OPAC said was available only to discover that the book was on the hold shelf for another patron an they could not take it out. How about something like "not currently on shelf".
Susan, do you suggest "not currently on shelf" because you don't want to show that the item is on hold? We used "not on shelf" at one time and found that it too was confusing for patrons, being so ambiguous.
-- Owen
-- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
I am at training in Texas and the librarians here agree with Susan. It should say that the book is not available. They don't need it to say that it's on hold - but they don't want it to say available because then patrons will go the shelf looking for it. --- Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/ On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Susan Bennett <susan.bennett@geaugalibrary.info> wrote:
Good point- "On hold" would be less confusing for patrons.
Susan Bennett ILS System Administrator Geauga County Public Library 440 286-6811 x 125 440 286-7419 FAX
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:41 AM, Owen Leonard <oleonard@myacpl.org> wrote:
I know our patrons are confused by "available". We've had more then one patron come in to pick up an item that the OPAC said was available only to discover that the book was on the hold shelf for another patron an they could not take it out. How about something like "not currently on shelf".
Susan, do you suggest "not currently on shelf" because you don't want to show that the item is on hold? We used "not on shelf" at one time and found that it too was confusing for patrons, being so ambiguous.
-- Owen
-- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
I am at training in Texas and the librarians here agree with Susan. It should say that the book is not available. They don't need it to say that it's on hold - but they don't want it to say available because then patrons will go the shelf looking for it. What about 'On shelf' instead of available? and 'On hold' if the item is either on hold or 'waiting' (on the hold shelf)? Would that clear up that distinction?
Josh
---
Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard
http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Susan Bennett <susan.bennett@geaugalibrary.info> wrote:
Good point- "On hold" would be less confusing for patrons.
Susan Bennett ILS System Administrator Geauga County Public Library 440 286-6811 x 125 440 286-7419 FAX
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:41 AM, Owen Leonard <oleonard@myacpl.org> wrote:
I know our patrons are confused by "available". We've had more then one patron come in to pick up an item that the OPAC said was available only to discover that the book was on the hold shelf for another patron an they could not take it out. How about something like "not currently on shelf".
Susan, do you suggest "not currently on shelf" because you don't want to show that the item is on hold? We used "not on shelf" at one time and found that it too was confusing for patrons, being so ambiguous.
-- Owen
-- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha.org http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
-- Joshua Ferraro SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE CEO migration, training, maintenance, support LibLime Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS jmf@liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS
What about 'On shelf' instead of available? and 'On hold' if the item is either on hold or 'waiting' (on the hold shelf)? Would that clear up that distinction?
I'd be satisfied with "on shelf." I don't think patrons need to see "waiting" in the OPAC, because the "waiting" status is really only relevant to the person for whom it is waiting. I would use "on hold" for both cases (on hold but not pulled, and on hold and waiting). -- Owen -- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
Anybody working on this aspect of holds should focus on the display only and not the underlying (C4) representation given the likelihood of other code being effected. "On Shelf" makes sense to me also. I think that whether an item is "available for hold" does not need any descriptive text beyond the presentation (or suppression) of the "Place Hold" button. --Joe On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 9:43 AM, Owen Leonard <oleonard@myacpl.org> wrote:
What about 'On shelf' instead of available? and 'On hold' if the item is either on hold or 'waiting' (on the hold shelf)? Would that clear up that distinction?
I'd be satisfied with "on shelf." I don't think patrons need to see "waiting" in the OPAC, because the "waiting" status is really only relevant to the person for whom it is waiting. I would use "on hold" for both cases (on hold but not pulled, and on hold and waiting).
-- Owen
-- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org <http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel>
OK, everybody seems to be OK with the diagnostic. Now, what could be the solution ? technical issue : our "problem" is that, in 3.0, everything in the result list comes from zebra : the biblio, the items, and the item status. in the detail page, things comes from SQL DB So I see 3 possibilities : - don't display "hold status" in result list, but only in detail page. pro : very easy to code, clean from internal point of view. cons : not sufficient ! - update the result list on the fly, through SQL queries, to check is items are not reserved. pro : quite easy to code. cons : NOT clean at all from an internal point of view, SQL consuming, and won't appear on zebra direct queries (I think this 2nd cons is much less harmful than the 1st) - improve the MARC item support to handle hold. That would mean a lot of things to do : choose a MARC field where to handle "hold" status, update zebra, update search.pm, and a lot of complex things to handle. pro : the best way to do it, no doubt. cons : very complex, can't be done quickly. If someone see another way to do that, I would be very happy to read it ! Otherwise, which solution should be preferred according to you ? I hope developers & users will be able to have the same position, although i'm afraid it may not be the case. My vote is : - code #1 in 3.0.x, as it's better than nothing and can be an acceptable workaround + it's clean from an internal point of view, as, in every case, we will have to do it. - code #3 in 3.x (sorry to bother you, Americans with one more vote, when you have a so important one to do next week ;-) ) -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc NOUVEAU TELEPHONE : 04 91 81 35 08
Hi to all, At 12.35 31/10/2008, Paul POULAIN wrote:
OK, everybody seems to be OK with the diagnostic. Now, what could be the solution ?
technical issue : our "problem" is that, in 3.0, everything in the result list comes from zebra : the biblio, the items, and the item status. in the detail page, things comes from SQL DB
So I see 3 possibilities : - don't display "hold status" in result list, [...] - update the result list on the fly, through SQL queries, [...] - improve the MARC item support to handle hold. [...]
my vote is: code #1 in 3.0.x BUT also code #1 in 3.x Why ? Because, as italian user of Opacs, the usual is that result display lists me only bibliographic info, not the holdings info. Bye Zeno Tajoli CILEA - Segrate (MI) tajoliAT_SPAM_no_prendiATcilea.it (Indirizzo mascherato anti-spam; sostituisci quanto tra AT con @)
participants (8)
-
David Schuster -
Joe Atzberger -
Joshua Ferraro -
Nicole Engard -
Owen Leonard -
Paul POULAIN -
Susan Bennett -
Zeno Tajoli